Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

I read your post.
I was on the fence about VAT relief on private school fees before, but after reading your post I'm firmly in favour of abolishing their VAT relief wef.
Unfortunately you sound ghastly, and tone deaf.

Well it has been abolished and you can rest easy.

Glad it is in now - so it can stop being a distraction and we can get to really looking at how to improve state schools

It's never been a distraction from improving state schools.

I think your post suggests that you actually do not know ‘most’ of the private school fee payers. Many are sacrificing hugely to give their children opportunity, for a myriad of different reasons. This policy is aimed at appeasing exactly this kind of small mindedness.

Definitely still agree with the VAT. State schools massively under funded and children are in poverty.. why on earth would we fund the privileged and under fund everyone else - total stuff and nonsense. If there are additional places taken up in good school catchments all well and good! There may be some temporary growing pains but so be it! Let’s not detract from the overall right!

Who cares if they were wrong on the most. There is NOTHING small minded about removing relief from private schools and properly funding state - quite the opposite in fact. Some people seem to be taking this very personally - this is just righting a long term wrong. Uncomfortable for some who are just making the fees or will have to send a younger sibling to state school.. but it’s necessary for the greater good. Big picture thinking at its finest!

Why wouldn’t you save all the money for your DD? if this was just a raise in costs by the school vs an addition of VAT, how would one meet the costs ?

Private school fees go up regularly. Realistically what people object to is paying that money in VAT. If it was a fee increase they’d be paying it and making sacrifices elsewhere, if need be. But paying tax makes a country better - we all benefit. My husband and I are both high earners and pay a lot of tax (as set by the Tories - there hasn’t been a new budget yet) and our DC go to a local state school that was in dire straits ten years ago and is now oversubscribed because of parents like us not going private. The standards have gone up and up. Kids go on to Oxbridge and medicine and dentistry from the outstanding sixth form and many of the high achievers are not from middle class backgrounds but they’ve had the benefit of better school life and supportive parents for their peers so more stability in school and out of it.

So much of this is about whether you see yourself as part of a community or some sort of floating privileged island off the coast of ordinary.

Honestly - fuck off - I am a child of an immigrant and we did not have enough food to eat growing up. I was bullied, subject to racism - don’t preach inequality to me.

So the way I read this is... you don't think private education is better then state education??
And if you do think private education is better then state you are willing to sacrifice your daughters education to prove a point??
Well enjoy your extra money, I'm sure your daughter won't hold any resentment in the future of her education vs her siblings 🙄

Fund the privileged 🤦‍♀️
Nobody is funding private school places other than the parents who pay for them.

My DC is at private school. I had to move them at a late stage from a “requires improvement” state secondary school after they were bullied to the verge of suicide and refused point blank to return. There were no other state schools locally with places available that they could move to. Previously, I am not sure whether I would have been but I am now opposed to VAT being introduced - and not because of the cost to us, as we will only have to pay for a couple of terms at most, but realising that this school rather than being full of over-privileged children has a large proportion who have had experiences similar to us and/or have special needs. However, even I am fed up with posts about the introduction of VAT and can’t see that some private-school parents are helping their cause with this.

Dear god, poor you being able to save £12k a year for your child. Cry me a bloody river

If only that is what it would actually achieve!! The most likely outcome is that it will produce a modest additional sum which may go some way to funding some additional teaching staff … but will do nothing to actually combat the massive inequalities that preset exist within the state system. Over subscribed schools will become more so, and push the marginalised even further into obscurity. Not sure how that can be spun as a positive?

Well that sounds like a win to me! Your daughter has a place in a good state school and you will be able to build a nest egg from the money you have saved, potentially to help them both out. And it is highly likely that, with the support of parents who value education, she will do just as well in her exams in the new school as she would have in the private school. I know my son did, and he's just graduated with a 1st class Maths Masters so result.

You're not happy to pay tax though - you've taken steps to avoid paying VAT. If you don't think lower earners have a right to "it" (services funded by tax?), what do you think the tax that you're happy to pay should be used for?

What most people don't realise is that state school funding is based on pupil numbers, £7500 per pupil. So every child from a private school is going to cost the government that to educate them. With the average private school fees being £35k there's not going to be much coming in that the labour government can do anything with.

Do you actually believe that most people don't realise that state school funding is based on pupil numbers?

What do you think most people think it is based on? How many letters the headteacher writes asking for money? How many bakesales the PTA organises?

The Labour Party seem to have a real issue with people that have money in this country. There are people for whatever reason, want to send their children to private school. Some of these people, through that choice, have to work hard to make that choice a reality. These are not people with a huge amount of money available. These are the people that are going to be affected by this Vat. change. There is also going to be the additional strain on our state schools to place these children, and let's face it, our schools are already stretched to capacity. It's yet another strain on our public services. And for what.

@Sally20099 are you a product of private education?
This is exactly what an entitled dickhead would say who had never been to anywhere with a hint of deprivation or hardship.

Do you see the bigger picture? Do you see how the last 14 years have made it so much shitter and harder for the poorest in society? Do you see that 'levelling up' was just a sound bite to give poor communities false hope?

Taxing private education is a signpost to people to show that if you want to still pay for education you will have to pay more which will be ploughed back where it is most deserved - shit schools in deprived areas. This is NOT a quick win, it will take a while but it's a start.

You still haven't answered why you had never even considered state education until this tax came in - why? Even my millionaire friends checked out the local state primaries and secondaries. In fact most of them went to the local state primary.

I read it, and still agree with the VAT. Plus I would go further to say that stories like yours are pretty rare, as are people with children attending private schools who are only just scraping together for the fees without VAT and therefore will have to move to state schools when the VAT rules change. You say you could afford to send your DD but are choosing not to, so that’s different to not sending her because the VAT increasing fees would price you out of private schooling for her. My boys go to private schools and I don’t know anyone who is going to send their children to state schools instead due to VAT - they are just going to pay the extra, as it’s not a stretch for them anyway. I even know a couple sending their only child to a prep school despite being on fairly low incomes themselves, and they can afford the small uplift in fees, as they aren’t spending every spare penny on their child’s education now.

20% of £35K is £7K so I’m guessing that would go quite a lot of the way towards the £7.5K cost per pupil.

This.

There is a falling school roll. The state schools have to remain open regardless of the number of pupils. They can end up spiralling because a fall in numbers means they have to make tough decisions regarding class sizes, class configuration, year group splits, etc., which makes them less attractive to local parents, driving the numbers further down.

State schools are not allowed to run deficit budgets and get no cash injection from donors. Any money that is raised by PTAs has to demonstrably benefit the children by providing something other than core education.

Rural schools are particularly vulnerable. One family moving away could be 3 school places. Also, the funding lags. The school census is taken each year and funding is paid based on the previous figures. So if they have an increase in children, the school has to meet the cost of that and wait for the funding to catch up.

I’m all for private school but claiming they should have charitable status isnt credible and they don’t deserve vat exemption. I wouldn’t worry about your child taking a state school place they are entitled to one as much as everyone else is.