Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

”We’ve had 4 through secondary. Some reach their peak later. None of them excelled themselves at school. They went to university and through MA’s got enviable jobs.”

Not really sure I look the word “enviable”.

We’ve found an excellent school (which we wouldn’t have even looked at before) and we’ve saved lots of money to spend, invest for our children and have fun with

Aw bless.

Still, just think of the £140,000 that you’ve blown on your son’s education needlessly.

it is unfair on DS so we will split the savings 50/50

Nice one. Your son gets half DD’s education money AND the private schooling. Long live the patriarchy.

Productivity isn’t gained from the push from parents at an early age.

How does this relevant to parent paying privileges to their children?

i don’t think posters are missing your point at all. I think you are missing the point of lots of other posters.

The fact that you previously wouldn’t have even considered / had your DC step foot in a state school even though you are now talking about how ‘excellent’ the state school your DD will be joining is just goes to show how far removed you were from the normal reality of life for 93% of the population. I agree it is a positive result for your DD that she will be educated among a more typical representation of society & hope she thrives there as that is what we want the education system to do for all children. I don’t see that as a failure of this policy at all.

As you have now had this revelation about state education for your DD I don’t understand why you are not considering it for your son in sixth form?

I don’t agree with VAT on education. I do think you are being grossly unfair to your DD @Sally20099 . You should send her to a private school, the same as you have for your DS. How can you live with treating them so differently?

This post just makes me hope they double the VAT. Enjoy your extra holiday you entitled arse.

Give it a bit of time, and when the people who thought their child was going to get into the local school - now has to travel further or miss out on grammar places because of the shift of some kids from private to public - mumsnet is going to be full of these parents understandably being pissed off.

@Wowwww those threads are plentiful already they’ve just been (& will remain) irrelevant to parents paying for private education.

All these earnest warnings now coming from private school parents to state school parents telling us that we are going to get fed up with the system. It’s as though educational inequality is a new thing to consider (it may well be for you but sadly it’s not for the majority!)

The tone of gleeful surprise op has about finding a decent state school is reminiscent of middle class people discovering Aldi after the financial crash.

Next she'll be on to tell us about some yellow stickeref halibut she found in M&S.

😂😂😂

I'm just going to sit and wait for the smug posts about how she's taken them on holiday before the State school finishes for Christmas because she can easily afford the fines with all the extra money she's saved, then doing the same next July - and then absolutely raging the following year when she's being prosecuted under the new attendance rules.

We haven’t missed the point of your message. We know you aren’t looking for sympathy. Personally I think you come across as a bit smug, like you have somehow gamed the system, and really not very self-aware.

Please do remember that none of us asked you to engage with the private sector to reduce the burden on us commoners. So please don’t sell it like it was some kind of favour.

But then maybe I feel a bit smug that our local Excellent secondary has gone massively downhill over the last academic year, with poor results, terrible behaviour, staff quitting - but only for a second as I gave more to worry about, like the cost of living.

Hope you enjoy your bonus winter holiday.

Great post! This did make me laugh 😊

If that's what you're hoping for, I think you'll be sorely disappointed. There really isn't going to be any sort of peasants' uprising to demand that the rich should be allowed back to their privileged schools in order to make way for the poor.

Most of the private school families we know in RL are decent people who are willing to suck up the extra tax because they know how incredibly privileged they are. However, there seems to be a small but very vocal minority on MN that are so wrapped up in their own sense of entitlement that they have convinced themselves that society will fall apart if even the tiniest dent is made in their privilege.

From a sociological point of view, It's quite fascinating to witness the level of self-righteous outrage and the predictions of dire consequences to come. From a human perspective, it's rather depressing to think that some people are so lacking in self awareness.

There are some genuine reasons why the VAT is not a perfect solution, and some heartbreaking stories about struggling families being priced out.

Yours, OP, is neither.

that doesn't even make any sense,,,the peasants uprising to demand that the rich...?? Not only does it not make sense and is also quite dramatic.

People who have the money will be buying houses close to the better free schools - and the children who would have normally got into that school will now not. There was a teacher up the thread who literally said she is seeing this happen already with these well off kids starting to take up places in her partner's good school and the other kids were being pushed into her underperforming school.

I believe that education gives people choices in life and everyone should have a access to a good education. I will not be paying this vat - my children (one in government school and the other in private school due to her SEN needs) are finishing school....but I would be more than happy to pay more tax to improve government schools. We should all be happy to pay more tax to improve government schools because this is a society problem.

But the school is an oversubscribed school, as most high performing schools are, and the school gets to be even more choosy about who they accept. And they can simply justify their choice by saying that these newcomers are in catchment.

I'm just curious... in what ways does this school get to choose? Don't they have published objective criteria for oversubscription?

You're right that it doesn't make sense and that it's overly dramatic. That was exactly my point...

Inequality within the state sector is nothing new. Lots of people are already priced out of the better catchment areas, so I don't see that this makes a huge amount of difference. If the numbers are higher than expected, then perhaps it will create extra pressure on government to address the issue. That would be a good thing.

And yes, we absolutely need to pay higher taxes to improve state education and other public services. The VAT is one aspect of that, and hopefully additional tax rises will be announced soon.

@Horsecalledrhubard "But the school is an oversubscribed school, as most high performing schools are, and the school gets to be even more choosy about who they accept. And they can simply justify their choice by saying that these newcomers are in catchment"

How can they get more choosy?

So you agree it's unfair to give one child a private education and the other the cash instead. So your solution is to give one a private education and half the cash, and the other just gets half the cash?

If you think it's unfair that your son "just" gets the private education while your daughter gets the cash, that suggests you don't think the private education was worth the money, surely?

@Horsecalledrhubard

If, as a teacher, you don't understand admissions criteria for state schools then maybe the school you teach in should be under special measures.

Your husband's school can't just choose to take ex-private students. Admissions are handled by the LA

The sweetest tears of all are those cryed by the rich when their privileges are threatened. Cry harder

This is really unpleasant. I have no skin in the game of private schooling, and don't really care about VAT, but there's no need for this.

Do you not realise that benefits and government subsidies are the biggest "privilege" of all, and that OP and others like her are the ones paying for this??

Comments like this just make you sound bitter and jealous, and do nothing but feed into a 'them and us' culture. Just piss off with it

If you have plenty of room to take in more pupils, you don't have huge classes. You have smaller than average size classes.

Why? AFAIK, the government doesn't give funding on the basis of a school's capacity, but on the basis of the number of students actually on the rolls. If a school with a capacity for 1000 students only has 700 students registered, it will get funding for 700 students... but it will have to pay to maintain a larger estate that it doesn't need. They'll have plenty of classrooms, but they'll be able to pay for fewer teachers per student.

I absolutely agree that those comments were in poor taste. I find no pleasure at all in seeing any child's education disrupted, regardless of their background, and I don't agree with this sort of vindictive approach.

However, I also take issue with your assertion that benefits are the biggest privilege of all. It suggests that you know very little about the lives of people who are forced to rely on the state for their basic needs. Privilege certainly isn't the word that I would use.

Your comments are feeding the "us & them" culture every bit as much as the pp's comments.