Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

I don’t know about school fees but what I do think is that later on today the chancellor is going to announce that actually there is a £20bn hole in the countries finances that apparently they knew nothing about and now they do need to increase everyone’s taxes - despite it being reported in the Guardian 2 days ago that Ed Miliband has said that Labour will honour pledge of £11.6bn in overseas climate aid.

You have no idea who's 'place' your DD has taken, maybe it was someone wealthier than you who will now go to private school seeing as they didn't get into the only "acceptable" state one.

So as long as your kids are thriving in the state sector, doesn't matter about the rest?

I mean it's all just so funked up what do uou say? At least independent school parents are prepared to pay for advantage. You just want those paying parents to improve things for kids and parents you consider 'good'? Hardly supporting social mobility, are you?

There are over 1000 kids applying every year for our local Grammar school, for about 150 places, its probably the state school with the highest results in the country - but none of the local state primary schools encourage their children to apply or prepare them.

I'd like to understand why that it is

@paperrockscissors "despite it being reported in the Guardian 2 days ago that Ed Miliband has said that Labour will honour pledge of £11.6bn in overseas climate aid."

Shocking to be wasting money on overseas climate aid. We should be focussing on the UK climate....

Your DD has got the better deal. How will your son feel about her having so much more than him in savings? I know he will have had more spent on school fees but at that age they are unlikely to see it that way.

Of course VAT for private schools is the right thing to do. Segregating children by wealth is a horrible thing to do anyway, children should mix with everyone in their community.

@Solent123 because they don't wish to expend so much energy cramming for a test that sees the majority of children written off as failures at age 10?

@Solent123 "but none of the local state primary schools encourage their children to apply or prepare them.

I'd like to understand why that it is"
Because grammar school tests are supposed to be "untutorable" (yeah,right)
Because primary schools do not have the time or the resources for such a niche activity.

VAT question aside, I think your choices are definitely increasing the probability that both your children will be sitting in a therapists office in 10 years time, trying to process their resentment of the other and the unequal treatment they feel they have received. If this situation is real, I’d say you have absolutely thrown the cat amongst the family dynamics pigeons to make a point:

So your DD gets an extra 100k more than her brother? Sounds fair!

Where I live you wouldn't be taking a place from another child. Any child in the area qualifies for a spot. Is that how it works in the UK?

Well, the highest performing is QE and it has no catchment (though it’s a lot more than 1000 kids and it’s for just over 180 places). They probably don’t think it’s worth their time when people can apply from anywhere in the country and there is such a huge choice of other great schools in the area. If you’re not talking about QE then that’s obviously different. In my area, some of the state schools do prep for the grammar exams for the super selectives, but not all and even the ones that do make a judgement in about year 4 of who they think stand a chance and only prep them.

It is how it works in Scotland but not England.
In England you place 3-6 schools in order of preference, and then everyone who applies is ordered against admission criteria, and they allocate schools. Admission criteria are roughly looked after children, living nearby, siblings, living far away, though there are multiple variations on that.

Why on Earth do you assume that private parents are Tory voters? Most I know voted for a third party because they couldn’t support the VAT but would rather have grated their own faces than vote Tory!

What about parents like you? What have you personally done to push fir better state education?

Are you really waiting for parents like the OP to turn up and do it for you? Indifference of parents of DCs in state school is the worst justification I've heard for VAT yet..

I still agree with VAT on school fees.

What the heck has foreign aid got to do with anything?

No, the OP,s crying hasn't made me change my opinion on VAT, we need the money for state education, not giving it to people who have plenty but plead poverty.

I thought you were going to come up with something more persuasive OP. Your post doesn't live up to your title at all.

I agree with the policy, but if I'm ever in doubt, all I will need to do is come back and re-read your entitled whinge.

I was hoping that the government uses the money gained from taxing private schools strategically.
In deprived areas / poor school areas, implementing good leadership and doing something like 'the London effect' elsewhere in the country.

Therefore your excellent 'outstanding' state school may get little to no extra funding yet a failing school in a deprived area would get more - which would hopefully turn it around and have a positive effect on hundreds of pupils.

Why are you giving your DD only 66% of what you spent on your DS's education and trying to justify the extra holiday?

Its an excellent argument. Its very disingenuous to pretend that the voices of some demographics are not louder and more influential than others. Wealth and privilege are typically accompanied by confidence and a sense of entitlement that is found far less amongst those used to having their needs and views ignored because they lack power and influence in life. For this reason the former are more likely to create a fuss when things are below the required standard than those who are accustomed to most things being less than optimum. And PP didn't say she wasn't doing anything herself. She merely pointed out that the new group of parents would be helpful in that.

Nobody is pushing ANYONE out of a place. Every child is free to take up a state school place if they choose it.

We could happily have afforded private but didn’t want to because we don’t believe in the private school system. I don’t see us as stealing the place of another child due to that decision. It’s no different.

Have they though? With more applications the LA and school often decide to expand the intake, sometimes permanently resulting in MORE places. A school near me did it about 10 years ago, went from a 7 form entry to a 10.

I think this is a pointless discussion, as I think Labour's position is more long term and idealogical than short term financial.

They want to end some educational disparity by getting most/all independent schools to close. They are choosing to kick start this by charging VAT. They hope this will decrease demand for private and less well endowed schools will close.

People will use state plus tutoring of course, and move into catchment for perceived better schools.

Because it's a primary school's job to educate their children broadly, not to get them cramming for one particular school exam.

Because it isn't up to primary schools to influence where children go to secondary.

Because the secondary school you're talking about clearly has enough children applying to it.

HTH.