Read this an tell me you still agree with VAT on school fees

[Sally20099]

DS is 3 years from finishing private school which includes 2 years in the sixth form. DD was due to start same senior school in Sept. Both went to private prep but due to talk of VAT on fees, and certainty of Labour govt for some time, we actually investigated sending DD to state secondary school. Only one in the entire city is rated outstanding but DD has got a place so we have decided to send her there. It’s very good academically but obviously hasn’t got the facilities of the private option. Currently school fees are £19,300 per year (before VAT) for DS so we have saved a reasonable sum by going to state school with DD. DS will finish at his school and we could afford DD fees (even with VAT) so we will instead put £12k a year extra in savings for DD and then spend the rest of the savings on an extra winter holiday. We would have never looked at state schools without the VAT policy and instead we have taken the place of someone at an outstanding rated school. Im not posting to annoy anyone, I wanted those who unequivocally support this to see some of the consequences. We also know a reasonable number of children in DS year who can’t afford fees with VAT and are taking their children out of private and going into state - and taking more places at the limited good schools. Its probably no surprise that most families in private schools happen to also live in good areas, meaning catchment areas tend to work out quite well when they go state.

I've read your post and I'm still fine with VAT on fees.

I also don't think your post helps your cause, but nor do most of them.

This ^^. And anyone who thinks private education is always better than state education needs to think again too.

Mr & Mrs OP have a lot more lobbying power as customers of their local individual private school, where the top leader (aka the head) could be quickly changed vs the lobbying power they have as needles in the haystack of a state school system, where the top leader/s (aka PM) could be changed every 5 years at best.

She is.

This is the point I was trying to make - far less eloquently than is demonstrated in this post though. Ideology against privilege is more important than real life impact on deprived children for so many.

Crocodile tears.

I completely believe that vat should be added to the bill... under the following rules. It doesn't effect anyone who is currently in that system. It comes in, in no less than 2 years AND if the state is unable to find an appropriate school within a certain area of that pupil then they have to pay the VAT for that child to attend the public school. Just for info not that it makes my point more or less valid. I went to public school until my GCSEs and then went to state funded.College.

She might be giving ds money out of her bank account. She hasn’t said she won’t give him money as well.

But why is she bothering to spend money on a private school for him when she seems to think that a state school is absolutely fine? I wonder if he'd prefer a good state school and £100 K in his back pocket. FWIW we could have afforded to send our DD private but we thought a decent house deposit and help at Uni would be more useful. And she did brilliantly at a state school 'only' rated as 'Good'.

I mean for me actually both your children are entitled to a place - you can choose to take it or not. I don’t agree with your logic you are ‘taking someone else’s place’… you’re just taking your own place! This seems a rather daft post. Surely you just do what you think is best for your own kids? Like everyone else…

I still agree with the introduction of VAT on school fees. Perhaps it will enable Labour to bring more state schools up to 'outstanding' level.

I expect your DD will feel hard done by due to not getting the same education as your son. And your son hard done by due to not getting the cash.
And being smug about living in a good school catchment really doesn't help.
I still think VAT on private schools is a good thing.

You've convinced me that the VAT policy on private schools is a great idea

How are state schools diverse when there are ones in lovely areas that are selective and there are ones in poor areas that those living in that poor area go to?

why can’t anyone see the massive inequality between one state school and another?

in a town near me, there are 2 state primary schools. One in the rich area with million pound houses round it, inhabited by doctors’ and lawyers’ kids who think they are the salt of the earth for using state. The other in the poorer area, where everyone who can’t get a place in the better school goes. There is nothing diverse or fair about this kind of situation

So OP, am I a terrible person because I can afford to send my child to private school but don’t? My child could be taking someone else’s place?

Maybe your child took the place of someone who is much better off than you, would that make you feel better?

Couldn't care less.

This is a key bonus point. With current population trends, every private school could be shut down in the next decade or two without there being a shortage of places. And to plug the funding gap because rich kids would now have to go to state schools? More progressive tax, the same argument as is needed for the funding of any other public service like the NHS, etc. It’s really not rocket science. You should not be allowed to buy your way up an NHS waiting list for urgent care, and the education of children is at least as deserving of fairness.

And what does her brother think of this? Or does he think he's got the better deal because unlike his sister he's had the benefits of private education -which you must have believed in your self,at least when you sent him there. Whatever, you've treated your 2 children differently for the sake of a few ( to you) tax dollars. They can have the rest of their adult lives to wonder about that. Meanwhile, I don't know if you were educated in the state or public school system, OP, but either way you come across as a fuckwit.

Correct - except for the child who lost their place at the outstanding rated school to us. And this will happen all over the country many, many times.

Haven't RTFT because honestly what a load of shite but OP this is what is going to happen. Someone else won't get into the outstanding state because there's one fewer place because it went to your daughter. They'll go private and pay VAT. So you're a winner and so are we. Happy days.

WTH is this goady, self indulgent, over privileged post? If you can afford to send her, send her. Don't blame the new VAT policy! Maybe try showing some empathy for the kids in poverty and their mental health

I still agree with VAT on school fees.

😂😂😂 Yeah, you’re really sticking it to the man there, OP 😂😂😂 I hope you’re able to save £84k for your son as well. Enjoy your winter holiday 😂😂😂

Of course you aren’t - I’m sorry if I’ve somehow offended you. I don’t feel bad about taking someone’s place; I’m merely pointing it out as a fact. Regardless of parental income, the place would be available without the VAT increase because we would have not even looked at state schools without this policy becoming law. It’s the same up and down the country.

As a teacher in a state school, I never agreed with this policy. I thought from the start that it was a terrible idea and that the people at the bottom of the social hierarchy would yet again be the ones to be negatively impacted.

I work at an incredibly deprived school. My husband works in an outstanding state school as a head of year. In the last few weeks of term, he gave multiple tours of the school to ex private school pupils. The school are delighted to be taking these pupils on, and the pupils live in the affluent local area, so are entitled to their place.

But the school is an oversubscribed school, as most high performing schools are, and the school gets to be even more choosy about who they accept. And they can simply justify their choice by saying that these newcomers are in catchment. The parents don’t have to push for higher standards, there are already high standards.

My school in turn, a school that’s barely keeping itself out of special measures and caters to an extremely deprived area, has opened its doors to children from areas further afield. We will be picking up children who would never have come to us before, but they now don’t have a choice as they are considered too far out of catchment for my husbands school. But we have plenty of room for them, albeit in huge classes, of very varied abilities and high percentages of FSM and ALN.

The private school kids get to go to the best state schools. The tax payer pays for those places to go to these normally privileged children.

And what will the government gain? I read today that they overestimated what they thought they’d get by 100%. And I’m sure they won’t be expecting to have to fund all these additional places as well as try to get the 6500 promised new teachers.

The tax payer and the poorest kids yet again are worse off…but the policy sounds great so I guess it’s a government win, as far as the envious go.

Every time, on posts like these, I point out that according to gov.uk only about 30% of high schools are full. There’s plenty of places. Probably even this ‘outstanding’ school has places.

It’s really not the mike drop that some think it is.

You’ve made my point so much better than I did. Thank you for explaining 🙏😊

Still agree with VAT on private businesses. Why’s it a good thing for kids to be in socially segregated schools?

Apologies if this has been asked already but if a state place costs $50K then how much does a private school place cost the government per child?