Are more of you planning to move your DC from private to state for 6th form now?

[WomensRightsRenegade]

Apologies but just wondering this? My son is going into year 10 at a school he loves, but we are realising that even with a generous bursary, the 20pc VAT will mean it’s impossible for him to stay for 6th form.

I know it’s a transition phase anyway, but he will be very upset to leave as historically not many kids at the school have left then.

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

My thoughts -

Only certain state schools / areas get contextual offers it’s unlikely you would allow your child near one of those schools so that’s not really a plus.

Friends Dh who teaches in a public school says every year a few of his pupils crash and burn out of university because they can’t manage without the support network they had at his private school - state you are required to be more independent. This is borne out by a relative who does pastoral at an Oxford college a minority of her private school students have done this and studies have shown this too.

Downside of state is basically the teacher recruitment crisis. Each of the 3 amazing teachers in each of dds 3 a level subjects left. This is also affecting private schools but not as badly I don’t think.

haha! that may be what their children tell them! But there are not state schools that don't give HW in year 7 and 8, although "homework" as a word is out of favour right now, in some area, it exists, but gets called other things. But the parents will be told if their children are not doing any, so it will be being done quietly and minimally, or the parents are ignoring communication from the school

Not wanting to go off topic, but given this wasn't mentioned in kings speech.... maybe it's on back burner?

@CurlewKate - when posters are spouting stuff like 'private school pupils speak like they own your soul' or 'private schools don't suit pupils who are gay or non sporty', or making really silly sweeping statements about quality of teaching in private schools (that somehow get incredible results, but hey, that can't possibly be due to the teaching, can it? 😂) it's hard not to question it.

@ClaudineMallory with the contextual offers though, what may have struck the OP is that for SOME universities (like Bristol) the list of what state schools make a candidate eligible for a contextual offer is really extensive -

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/study/undergraduate/documents/aspiring-state-schools-and-colleges-2024-cycle-Eng-Wales-revised-20240219.pdf

There are some high achieving London schools on here which came as a surprise to me. And yes, if you were applying for Bristol and you did your GCSEs privately, but went to one of these schools listed for A-level, you will get a contexual offer.

What a shame. You need to increase your household income. Have you thought about taking in ironing?

Bristol is an outlier.
To repeat: a state school place will not necessarily mean lower offers for university.

@ClaudineMallory yes, that's why I said 'SOME universities'.

@Mouseykitty and I am responding to those who have repeated this misunderstanding about state school places.

One University. Others use contextual data but it's not just by school. Bristol made a v long list but to be honest most students who apply there get the normal offer anyway.

I was trying to explain and describe to you the way teachers are treated in private schools. People were saying behaviour is better. No it isn't. Behaviour is different. There are a certain cohort in private schools that treat teachers as lower than servants, and you just don't get that in state schools. And you have to suck it up, because it is a business, and it is your job to kowtow.

And no, you don't get a contextual offer if you go to one of those schools on the list just for sixth form. (and not automatically if you go for GCSEs).

Read the full policy.

A lot of state schools have high achieving sixth forms. That is because even comprehensives can be selective at sixth form. Bristol is a university which is trying hard, and has tried for years, to decrease its privately educated percentage among students. So it is looking to take in more state educated - but state educated for GCSE is what counts, not A level only.

Having taught in both sectors my take on students is that they are...... kids. Kids are not really that different whatever the school. You get less bad behaviour in private schools because it's much easier to just kick them out. At my state school we get those students and just deal with them.
The parents hard pretty much the same too. Most lovely, some rude and believe every word their child tells them, and some entitled believing they can pay for that 9/A*.

Weirdly the teachers are the same too. Because most of us move around a bit and try different schools for a change/promotion/learn new things. We don't change because we change schools.

Oh and GCSE and iGCSE are different. Some content in one that's not in the other, and vice versa. eg. Isomers in iGCSE but not in GCSE. Ceramic stuff in GCSE. Lots of better examples but it's early.

Exactly mums. As with anything in life there are pros and cons. You can’t buy your way out of every life’s issues especially not challenging teens of whatever stripe!

That said my year 10’dd2 is thrilled some of her private school friends are considering moving to her school for 6th form!

@mumsneedwine - not trying to argue with you, but there are probably multiple factors that contribute to issues around behaviour, no? It's not purely the ease of difficulty of removing disruptive pupils that causes disruptive pupils...

What are you on about? It was in the King's Speech!

'...ease OR difficulty', I meant. Can't seem to edit!

Friends Dh who teaches in a public school says every year a few of his pupils crash and burn out of university because they can’t manage without the support network they had at his private school - state you are required to be more independent. This is borne out by a relative who does pastoral at an Oxford college a minority of her private school students have done this and studies have shown this too.

This was the case with the DS of a friend of mine. He stayed at the same school from nursery through to 6th form. He never had the transitions most DC get from starting primary school, then starting at a different secondary school. After her DS struggled at university (I think he ended up redoing a year or two) she admitted that she thought it was a mistake sending him to the school she did.

Obviously, not all young people struggle, but he did cause his parents a lot of worry.

A lot of state schools have high achieving sixth forms. That is because even comprehensives can be selective at sixth form.

This was certainly the case at DD's school. Students needed a minimum of 5 GCSEs including English and maths, with grade Bs in the subjects they wanted to take at A level (this was 2016). They then had to achieve a minimum of 3 Ds at AS level to continue to year 13. This was made very clear when they started.

Some underperforming students were "managed" out. In 2018 when DD took her A levels the school had a 100% pass rate with 45% of them achieveing A or above for all subjects.

So you don't think their parents are clever enough to query this or that if kids werent doing allocated homework then this would have been discussed at parents evening meetings? Stop gaslighting

It was mentioned and has been raised in HoL

I must admit that I struggle to believe that there are secondary schools who don't give any homework at all in years 7 and 8. How well does this school perform?

Behaviour has been considerably better at the four separate private schools we have been to over the years, in comparison to the three state schools we have also been to. Also the teachers are loved and respected, as are all the support staff. Dd went to our local state school for 6th form and said that the way some kids treated the lunch staff was disgusting, throwing things, laughing at them, rude.

A private school that consistently had bad behaviour wouldn't last long.

Every post I read from you just sounds like your own bias and magical thinking.

You get less bad behaviour in private schools because it's much easier to just kick them out

Do you really think there is less low level disruption because the kids think they'll be expelled? This certainly wasn't our experience and I think this is another lazy trope. There was almost zero low level disruption at dds most recent school. Due to small class sizes so that all had a good relationship with the teachers, a culture where being respectful and working hard was seen as cool, lots of sport, flexibility and great pastoral care. Teachers weren't absolutely knackered so had time to really get to know the kids.

Hopefully with the new VAT going into state schools some of this might become more consistent in state schools.

Didnt hear of anyone getting expelled in the 5 years she was there BTW.

@combinationpadlock - 'And no, you don't get a contextual offer if you go to one of those schools on the list just for sixth form.' - My best friend's dd got a contextual offer for Bristol after going to one of the schools on the list just for sixth form! 😂

I think it’s unfair to compare the behaviour of the two cohorts. . The state has to take every child that lives in their catchment. The private school only has the children of engaged wealthy parents. Their behaviour is better - no shit!

Yep - as did a couple at dds state 6th form who had been to her (not great) original independent - in fact one of then had been to pre prep, prep and private secondary - celebrity parent as well! - got a contextual offer from Bristol!

I can only think Bristol knows full well what it is doing! Sadly they didn't do the course dd wanted to do!