Are more of you planning to move your DC from private to state for 6th form now?

[WomensRightsRenegade]

Apologies but just wondering this? My son is going into year 10 at a school he loves, but we are realising that even with a generous bursary, the 20pc VAT will mean it’s impossible for him to stay for 6th form.

I know it’s a transition phase anyway, but he will be very upset to leave as historically not many kids at the school have left then.

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

@BrumToTheRescue there is no set admissions code for 6th forms. They make their own up.

@mumsneedwine sixth forms in state schools must follow the admissions code 2021. They can set their own oversubscription criteria as long as they abide by the code.

@BrumToTheRescue yes, but this is meaningless. No catchments, and over subscription criteria can be anything g they want. Preference to own students will also be dependent on a variety of grades needed we need a 6, some schools need a 7 to do a subject at A level,
And there is no PAN. More apply for right subjects, we'll take you.

It is not meaningless. The oversubscription criteria cannot be anything the school wants. They must abide by the code.

Please read and tell me how they can't do what they want ? As long as it's agreed and published. Every 6th form has a different admissions system.

Presumably you missed the parts that say academic entry criteria must be the same for internal and external students? Did you also miss the oversubscription criteria must prioritise LAC/PLAC? Or you just ignored them.

They also cannot distribute places e.g. based on a family’s willingness/ability to make a donation even if the school wanted to. Nor on an interview.

Back to the original point, sixth forms in state schools absolutely cannot be picky. They must follow their oversubscription criteria which must abide by the admissions code.

Our local sixth form bases external places on proximity - so in principle everyone gets an offer but on results day the internal pupils get the earlier time slots for interview (choosing subjects) and then it’s kids who live closer to the school, with kids further way often having to wait until the next day. At which points many subjects are already full, so kids will likely go elsewhere.

There is only one class for Media Studies, for example, so that is almost always exclusively open to internal candidates.

The excellent college near us uses a lottery system. So everyone has the same chance.

This is what I interpreted from reading the oversubscription admissions criteria for our local sixth forms in schools - if I recall correctly, the order of priority had LAC, then internal candidates, then distance from school. Which is why I was concerned that sixth forms in schools could potentially end up with no places for external candidates.

The sixth form colleges obviously don't have internal candidates, but do have distance as a criterion.

But I'm not sure how that works if there's no PAN, is that just down to popularity of subjects and availability of teachers? E.g. if you want to do common subjects like maths, chemistry, physics, you're more likely to get in?

Confusing.

The clip that mumsneedwine shared seems to say that external candidates have to be on a level footing.

Colleges have different rules. The admissions code doesn’t apply to them.

For state school sixth forms, if internal students meet the entry criteria and want to stay on to the sixth form, they must be offered a place. Places will then be offered in accordance with the school’s sixth form oversubscription criteria. You will be able to see the PAN for external applicants in the school’s sixth form admissions arrangements. Although the sixth form may offer more places than this. The entry criteria must be the same for internal and external students.

Our PAN for external applicants says 'at least 5 places will be offered'. This year we had 172 internal and 45 external who made their grades. We took them all (even though our official PAN is 190 for year 12). More cash for school, and a class of 26 is no worse than a class of 20 to teach.

This is exactly the same as us. My son is on a very generous bursary but the 20pc extra makes it untenable. After always assuming he would stay until A levels, we have come to accept he will definitely be leaving after GCSEs. We will also have to stop his peri music lessons, which is particularly sad as music is his passion, and he had been hoping to do music A level and ideally do a degree in music

Teacher retention and recruitment is an absolutely key aspect which makes a huge difference to how good a school is and the quality of education a child receives.

Lots of teachers are leaving teaching, full stop. Some transfer to independent schools from state. Few move in the opposite direction.

There is a massive staffing crisis in many state schools - huge numbers of supply teachers and changing teachers. Lots of non-specialists teaching KS3 or GCSE or even A Level. Schools are often looking for a warm body to out in front of the class.

Private schools vary a lot. Many small ones which pay below state school rates also struggle to get and keep quality staff. Decent and often larger independents can afford to pay higher rates. As the overall pool of teachers falls, it’s harder for all schools, but the bigger independents have the least struggles in getting and keeping highly qualified in their subject teachers.

It’s hard to suggest that the very top independents schools with the very top results have worse teaching than state schools and that lots of their teachers are unqualified or the use of some igcses mean a lower quality education is being delivered. Laughable as a suggestion.

All schools are different. Of course some state schools are better than some independent schools. Of course some individual teachers are better than others. However, people pay fees because they believe their children are getting a better education and often that is the case, if comparing to the alternative available to them. Parents decide ‘better’ in terms of different things they value - it can be exam results, but also about the size of classes, facilities, extra curricular, the cohort of children…..all kinds of things. People may dislike independent schools and rightly think they are unfair, but to say the teaching is inferior or the teachers inferior, as a blanket statement, is just daft.

Dd chose to stay at her very good state school for 6th form largrly due to the teachers. The three amazing ones in each subject had all gone by the end of the first term. She’s not a dramatic type but on telling us of the third resignation she started crying. It’s really awful. Not blaming the teachers of course. Two left the profession entirely one went to a local private school. Honestly this is my only reservation about state sixth forms.

Shame on Labour!!!

Yeah shame on Labour making better education a priority for all rather than the priveleged few 🙄

Yes let’s see how it works out in reality. I feel sorry for people actually falling for the bullshit. At least the people saying they hate private schools and love the schadenfreude of kids like mine having their lives upended are being honest.

As for an army of ‘mental health experts’ in schools, that prospect should chill the blood of anyone with even a passing knowledge of Abigail Shrier’s latest book ‘Bad Therapy’. The evidence that these people do more harm than good is pretty stark.