Are more of you planning to move your DC from private to state for 6th form now?

[WomensRightsRenegade]

Apologies but just wondering this? My son is going into year 10 at a school he loves, but we are realising that even with a generous bursary, the 20pc VAT will mean it’s impossible for him to stay for 6th form.

I know it’s a transition phase anyway, but he will be very upset to leave as historically not many kids at the school have left then.

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

I totally agree with you. But the fact remains that the behaviour IS better. The socio economic reasons for that are valid and relevant, but they exist.

Poorly which is why we chose private.

Also from what I see as a private school parent you are more of a client and treated as such, At state you are not! So you may need to adjust expectations if you are used to that. It’s apples and pears.

You do not see bad behaviour at most private schools because anyone displaying it is removed v quickly. State schools don't that luxury. We get those students and do our very best by them. They come to us unable to behave. This does not manifest itself at state school. It was there at private schools. Who won't tolerate it. So easier to get rid.

My smallest class this year at a big standard comp was 5 students. All needed more support so they got it. My top set was 34. But they just got on with work, very independently, so works just fine.

Bad behaviour has many reasons. Parenting, SEN needs not being met, trauma etc. Money does not prevent those things happening.

"You do not see bad behaviour at most private schools because anyone displaying it is removed v quickly"

This is just not true, in fact anyone who says this cannot possibly have had anything to do with private school.

Drugs will mean an immediate expulsion. Violence ditto. But mucking about enough to distract the rest of the class - it happens and they deal with it. The culture of the school seems to mean that it doesn't happen very often.

They come to us unable to behave. This does not manifest itself at state school. It was there at private schools. Who won't tolerate it. So easier to get rid

Are you saying you get ex private school pupils who have been thrown out, but you tolerate the poor behaviour? I mean, I guess that happens occasionally. The only kids I know who have been expelled have gone to other, smaller, private schools.

Oh dear. No, we don't tolerate the behaviour, we deal with it the best we can. But we don't have the luxury of just throwing them out on a random Friday. The process to exclude is long and arduous. Mainstream education does not suit everyone, but these days there are few alternatives. If I was sworn at in a private school the child would be excluded. In state we issue punishments but can't expel for that alone. Or chair throwing. Or truanting.

And yes, low level disruption happens everywhere, even in the most expensive schools. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about severe behaviour. Drugs are a problem in all schools but we have drugs dogs round 3 times a year and they've never found anything. All schools will expel for that (it's allowed). Vaping on the other hand is a bloody nightmare at the moment.

Don't like being called a liar. So please don't. I've taught at a £50,000 private school & at a very deprived comprehensive. Kids are just kids. But it's easy to just keep the nice, compliant children if you can.

You really need to stop saying stop gaslighting when others have a different opinion.

@mumsneedwine - agree with you that kids are just kids. But the reason one tends to see more severe behavioural issues in the 'deprived comprehensive school' over the private school is broadly because of deprivation, not simply because the private schools 'don't have the luxury of 'kicking someone out on a random Friday'.

In 15 years of having 3 kids in private school (and knowing multiple families because of that), I've known ONE kid who was asked to leave because of a drugs issue - and it was a big deal for the family involved with lots of consultation and warnings given etc. They weren't just 'thrown out'. You don't see less disruptive behaviour in private schools purely because the threat of expulsion hangs over the pupils - it's because of the demographics.

Broadly, kids who come from more advantaged backgrounds are less likely to have challenging home lives (that could contribute to behavioural issues) than those who come from deprived backgrounds. Not always, but broadly.

I am being told I am lying, making things up etc just because another poster disagrees with me. That's not having a different opinion, it is undermining my knowledge and experience and saying that I don't know the truth.
More than happy to have debate etc but I will not be told that I am lying or aren't aware of reality/the truth.

Yet in the case of children not recieving homework in year 7-8 this is untrue. I have kids in state, I know a huge amount of other children in different state schools all around country and have done for 3 decades. They all get homework in years 7-8. All of them. So you are either lying or don't know the whole story.

@RampantIvy "I must admit that I struggle to believe that there are secondary schools who don't give any homework at all in years 7 and 8. How well does this school perform?"

My DD's excellently performing school gave very little homework until (I think) year 9.

Many other countries are not as obsessed by homework as the UK seems to be.

@Mouseykitty I'm afraid money does not buy good parenting. In my 25 years in schools I have seen v bad behaviour from v wealthy kids and v poor kids. And many in the middle. At my current v large comp we have had 25 students arrive this academic year from privates - a massive increase.

Yes, behaviour is often linked to deprivation but that's because lack of money can be hard.

There are a million reasons for the behaviour in schools at the moment, under funding for SEN being a massive one.

Jesus Christ I am talking about OUR local state, not ALL state and I can categorically say that they don't give homework in Yrs 7 + 8. YOUR local schools may be different but you can not speak for every school in the UK.
Why do you find it so hard to believe that not every school is the same as yours??
Yet again you undermine my knowledge of my local state school. It is a poor performing school.
Read the post from @CurlewKate which says her DC got little homework until Yr 9. Is she lying too?
There is massive inequality in the state sector.

@twistyizzy "Read the post from @CurlewKate which says her DC got little homework until Yr 9. Is she lying too?"

Take on board that the school I am talking about is an excellent school with excellent results. And remember, we do not all belong to the British HomeworkCult.

Yes I agree with you, I was just proving that other schools give little or no homework in first few years despite being told I don't know what I'm talking about!
Homework, or lack thereof, doesn't make a good school.

My son is Autistic and has ADHD and received a bespoke package (he has an EHCP) to attend internet school (not great as I was unpaid LSA). He did iGCSE and then joined a local 6th form targeted at STEM. The course content he had covered at iGCSE in maths, further maths (not just additional maths) and even physics (with no practicals) was far greater than his classmates who had done GCSE. Particularly in maths A level where he encountered no new concepts and was A* from day one due to his Edexcel further maths iGCSE. Physics practicals made the A level easier not harder. Even OCR FM A level was easier because the concepts had been introduced at iGSE.

If iGCSE was easier to pass for these subjects he would have found A level harder or at least as challenging as those classmates with equivalent grades but he found them easier because there was a step down. How would you explain this?

@mumsneedwine - I'm not saying that money buys good parenting. Of course it doesn't. But what I'm saying (which you also agree with) is that kids who are growing up in poverty, or from deprived backgrounds, are more likely to have challenges that can lead to behavioural issues.

So mix a more challenged cohort with - as you say - less funding to cope with SEN and so on, and you will inevitably will end up with a school where the pupils are broadly, less well behaved than the kids in private schools. That's the reason - NOT because the private schools are kicking out more disruptive pupils all the time (or that pupils are so scared of expulsion, they behave well).

Again, yes there are brilliant state schools and crappy private schools. But there's too much silly defensiveness on this thread. There are posters on this thread that would try to argue that my local comp where there are high levels of school absence, serious problems with knife and gang violence, and a poor pass rate at GCSE is a better school, with better teachers, than my kids' private school - where the majority of pupils are happy and thriving and there's a 100 percent pass rate at GCSE. It's just silly.

It's not a fair system, and even though Labour's VAT hit on fees will mean I have to pull my kids out of the private school they love so much - I hope it will level things out by the time my kids are parents themselves.

DD sat iGCSE maths. It was considered more rigorous than GCSE when she took it in 2016.

No private schools would expel for swearing at a teacher.

Dh went to a very smart public school many years ago and he laughed when I asked if that would be true.

The expulsion rules are not taken lightly and has others have said its a long process.

Maybe you worked at a school that didn't have proper safeguarding, a long time ago? Because you don't sound as though you really know much about modern private schools.

"But we don't have the luxury of just throwing them out on a random Friday. The process to exclude is long and arduous. Mainstream education does not suit everyone, but these days there are few alternatives. If I was sworn at in a private school the child would be excluded."

You see, this is what someone who had never set foot in a school, never mind a private school, might think. Even my friends who are staunch state school teachers are aware of the rules and regulations regarding private schools!

I know a school that has expelled a pupil for calling the head an F C. All schools are different, and private schools are often limited companies so can apply their own rules. Been in many and all had separate policies. State schools are set by the government.

I love being told I've never set foot in a school. When I'm sitting in one right now - UCAT practice day. It's v hot, the roof is leaking and I need to empty the bucket.

And there is even more inequality between the private and state sector.

These threads are always the same, people with experience / children in state school trying to convince those in private schools that private schools aren't better, do not have better teaching, do not have better facilities and the children are not better behaved preferably throwing in will be on drugs,

And yet here we are with a government telling us that private school children have unfair advantages over state and therefore they need to be penalised....

Be happy with the choices you make in life for yourself and your families, no one is going to be convinced you know more about their school than they do no matter how many schools you apparently have been employed at blah blah blah. It's ridiculous.

These threads are always the same, people with experience / children in state school trying to convince those in private schools that private schools aren't better, do not have better teaching, do not have better facilities and the children are not better behaved preferably throwing in will be on drugs

💯

Agree. Sometimes I wonder if its just the same poster with a name change!