Are more of you planning to move your DC from private to state for 6th form now?

[WomensRightsRenegade]

Apologies but just wondering this? My son is going into year 10 at a school he loves, but we are realising that even with a generous bursary, the 20pc VAT will mean it’s impossible for him to stay for 6th form.

I know it’s a transition phase anyway, but he will be very upset to leave as historically not many kids at the school have left then.

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

Thank you. You’re right, it wasn’t about the merits of private vs state! As I’ve said, the state option near us is excellent so I’m not really worried on that score - it’s more about being forced to leave somewhere where my son is very happy and to somewhere where he won’t know anyone etc

I think you are a little off. Some of the most selective schools in the UK use IGCSEs. They do it because the grade is based on a final exam rather than coursework

That's not true. The GCSEs were reformed in 2017 and now the grade is based on final exms only.

A lot of children in my daughter state 6th form college are from private school and few attended boarding school. It’s very small college and you have to have good grades to be accepted

Exactly. They will not get a lower offer! The contextual offers are for PP students and the POLAR postcodes, asylum seekers, those who are first generation to go to university etc. not just state school students!

Send them to the state school by all means, but just to repeat, it won't be easier for them to get into university. Also, don't expect the system to be the same as at the private school. We get a lot of private school students transferring to our 6th form. The expectations are often not matched by the school's provision.

Depends on the university - you need to check how each one addresses contextual offers / widening participation.

Bristol (as mentioned) just has a list of schools (no POLAR requirements) which includes sixth form colleges that have a track record of successful Oxbridge applicants and has managed to include a school local to me that doesn’t currently have a sixth form.

Even so, for oversubscribed courses being eligible for a contextual offer does not mean you’re guaranteed an offer.

I've worked on the UCAS applications for 15 years. I'm well aware. I recently attended training for all the updates.
Attending a state school is not, in itself, going to get you a contextual offer as claimed upthread.

Is it really just dawning on the people who rejoiced at the VAT change?

I'm surprised that people think that the kids who leave/have to leave private schools will be on an equal par in a state secondary. That is naivety at its finest.

The kids who will be at the disadvantage ultimately are the state school kids.

The state school students are not disadvantaged. We've taken private school students for many years into our post 16. They tend not to be such resilient learners, but otherwise little difference in outcomes.

Yep - even if you meet state school, POLAR home post code and standard offer requirements, you’re only eligible for a contextual offer, and not guaranteed an offer (contextual or otherwise).

Money talks. Wait and see...........

Exactly. I have had to explain to so many parents of students who went to private school - coming here won't guarantee your child a university place! They really do misunderstand how it works.

There are some ridiculous prejudices and wildly inaccurate statements on this thread.

I have no skin in the game any more as DD is now applying for post grad.

Fact 1 State education is woefully underfunded
Fact 2 State comprehensive schools also have bright children
Fact 3 Some state comprehensive are better than others, although this may be down to demographics. And some are better than some independent schools
Fact 4 Some independent schools are better than others, and many are better than many state schools. Again, this is likely to be down to demographics
Fact 5 Some state 6th form colleges are better than private 6th form provision

There is a 6th form college in the next town that is outstanding and so highly regarded that they attract a lot of students who have been privately educated up until GCSEs. It is a large college and can offer a much wider range of subjects than the independent schools do.I

@WomensRightsRenegade DD stayed at her school for A kevels, but found it quite cliquey. Quite a few who joined from other schools left after a couple of weeks for this reason.

Students who go to a 6th form college tend to make more friends because they are all newcomers. Is there not a good 6th form college you can consider?

Good points, @RampantIvy . We (a non selective state school) get better A level results, and more students into Oxbridge than the local private school.
There are many variables.

This is true. We take a constant stream of children from private schools. They tend to be a little weaker when they arrive - not all of them. But they can catch up if they put the effort in.

Think you need to tell Keir how difficult life is for private school pupils with their substandard teachers, poor safety concerns and adult to student ratios. Sounds like he needs to consider adding VAT to the privileged state school pupils.

IGCSEs are internationally recognised which is why some private opt for them, they are far from substandard.

iGCSEs are the same exam boards as GCSEs one is not more widely regarded then the other , they are just on two different levels, iGCSEs are cheaper to run and easier to pass, hence them being banned in state schools.

Why do you think state schools are not allowed to use them as GCSEs? if they were the full equivalent, they would be an option, wouldn't they. They are not, so they are not.

This is a universally known fact.

The only people I have ever come across who don't know this are on this thread.

What do you THINK the difference is? Why would any exam board make a different GCSE for pupils taking an English qualification abroad? because poorer schools abroad don't have the resources - internet, science lab, library, sports equipment, DT workshop etc that uk schools have.

Even rich schools in other countries might not have what is expected in a UK school, as the culture is different, so an english qualification might not be possible, in schools where the culture is not to have science labs, for example. Even many European countries teach science in theory only

The iGCSE is designed for that purpose. What do you think they were designed for?

In that case the government should be held accountable for increasing costs within financially strugglong state schools by forcing the more expensive examinations across all state schools and for penalising their state school pupils by forcing harder educational systems on them that set them in a negative position against private schools who can opt to study the cheaper easier igcses.

And then to top it all off the government have also been overpaying their state school teachers, turns out teachers are so desperate for work they are willing to work in private schools for less money.

Cross fingers Bridget Philipson is on mumsnet to scoop up all of these opportunities ....

He'll survive I had to leave private (only there 1 y initially to escape bullying then dad made redundant) at the end or yr 9. I ended up with 5 secondary schools. Self taught pretty much everything to get into med school. My state grammar 6th form was about 1000x better education than private anyway

@RampantIvy - thanks for a sensible post!

This thread has been slightly derailed by resentment/envy/whatever towards private schools and discussion around contextual offers, but what @WomensRightsRenegade seemed to be asking was how your child coped with a move at sixth form from a school he or she was previously very happy at.

I’d also love to hear advice and experiences around this as it’s a situation we’re imminently facing, and I’m worried about it. It’s not really to do with whether or not a state sixth form will be as good/better/worse - but how my DS will feel being moved away from the friends and school he adores.

It's not been "derailed by contextual offers". Some of us were clarifying a misunderstanding.

They usually do, with effective support. I generally find them to be very willing, although we find they're not the most independent learners, depending on which school they've come from.

In general, no, they don't.. Students attending some schools (those with a history of not getting many students into higher education or low GCSE results) may attract lower offers to reflect this. Students can also get lower offers for other reasons e.g being a young carer or being in care of living in a lower socio-economic area. It's a combination of factors that is needed though (although I've learnt from this thread Bristol has a list of schools they look at).

Simply going to a state school doesn't give automatically give you a lower offer. If two students from similar family backgrounds live next door to each other and one goes to private school and one goes to state, they will get the same offers.

My DC has been state educated throughout, and goes to a school with lower than average GCSE results and she is disabled. She received standard university offers.

@Mouseykitty "This thread has been slightly derailed by resentment/envy/whatever towards private schools..."

If you're talking about derailment, I have seen more threads about private education derailed by people posting rubbish like this than anything else....

I never said ALL state schools, I said our local state secondary. It is true, I am still I touch with parents from DDs state primary whose kids went to the state secondary and they say zero homework in Yr 7+8.
But yeh, I've made it up! Just because you don't believe me doesn't mean it's not true.