VAT and removal of 50% cap on scholarships

[lovepenguin]

I'm not in favour of Labour's policy on adding VAT to private schools. However I do wonder whether the private schools no longer have to adhere to the 50% cap on scholarships from the charity commission, if they lose the charity status. Will scholarships be more generous?

Because it is impossible to provide such a service for the population at large. Simply impossible. And not just in the UK. Countries have to sort Healthcare, defense, pandemic preparedness etc. No sane government (Labour, Tory, Green whatever) will use those funds to provide fancy aesthetics for all children in a country of 66million people. Not least because those are nice to have for sure but do not influence academic outcome. They likely do result in more rounded and exposed kids but parents can provide that themselves if a priority. These are our kids - so they are our responsibility. The government certainly needs to do more but private school standard for all is not pragmatic

I agree, taxes need to be raised too. But the fundamental fact is the system is not fair and needs addressing and VAT on private fees is a step in the right direction in my opinion. Personally, I think Labour should be more bold and find a way to abolish them but I happy for this as a start.

Interesting you point out the high benefits - most people on benefits are in work!

There are many benefitting like him, but not for long. If you then say why can’t all benefit? Well because they might not be ultra talented naturally in an area.

If a kid is going to do well, they will. If the family are struggling to understand why they need education, work etc , then no amount of money is going to propel them into stardom - you know that!!!

That’s the point though. Adding VAT to private school fees isn’t going to raise enough to fund investment in the state sector.

Even the Director of the IFS (the organisation which published the report which Labour are basing their figures on) has said “But don't be fooled into thinking this is going to make any real difference to the amount of money available for public services.”

Earning low wages? Did you ever not inform them as a teacher that if they work hard at their grades, it gives them choices? Including not taking jobs that pay low???

I disagree we should be aspirational for all our children! If the political will was there it could happen. Now would be a good time to do this especially as so many schools need rebuilding due to the RAAC scandal - we could definitely make a start!

Are you being deliberately facetious...

Adding VAT is something. It's a step in the right direction and certainly better than where it is now.

Is tooth decay down to school’s fault? Is not knowing what food to buy down to schools fault? Is not caring about not studying down r school? Not getting enough sleep? Not reading enough? Not playing an instrument, not watching a child’s nutrition? All down to school? Knowing why work matters? Fixed by giving an extra £5 a head? Well —- I reckon the thinkers will say, hang on this is billions and billions to solve. Why are labour saying it is all sorted with 1 billion?

British parents are not the same mentality and upbringing of other countries. You cannot compare apples and oranges.

The political will is not there because the general population will rightly prioritise many more important over and above aesthetics in schools. And parents (state and private) need to take personal responsibility to provide extras for their own children. We have a low wage economy with many people requiring benefits to survive whilst working - they will not tolerate their benefits being reduced so children can have a plush carpets in class. And rightly so. Parents can and should provide these things for their children. The government's roll is to ensure the quality of core education is solid and comparable to the very best there is out there. People talk about scandi countries all the time - their schools are not luxurious and a larger proportion of the population pays larger proportions of their wages in tax. Private parents should pay VAT - no problems there. But real change will come when everyone realises we will all need to do our bit. Not just the 'rich'

I disagree. It will disproportionately affect those who are on the low middle scales. And have zero impact . Let’s bet our salary on how it impacts our classroom?

All pay for education - and no not the £50 tax if that, you pay a month for education and many none at all their whole lives.

Totally agreee. My neighbour has not worked since she was 20. Her whole philosophy is that why should she when the rich get everything for free. She absolutely doesn’t see the irony in that. She is not alone in her thinking!!!!

Totally agree with you and I'm so glad you brought up the Scandinavian model. If Britain wants to progress as a nation, it has to invest in the core education for all. And, I will say, there are a lot of great state educators and schools out there doing a fantastic job in buildings with bad carpet and leaking roofs. It needs to be better for all. I'm in total support of Labours idea. It's something.

Yes - it will hopefully help a little. For the rest, everyone will need to roll up their sleeves. At least private parents have the opportunity to supplement for their kids. The economy needs to grow so more people can do more for their kids. Any government can only do so much

You're missing the point it isn't just simply how schools look. It should not be the lower waged people who get taxed more to fix the system. I am all for a wealth tax to sort this mess out. And some better laws to stop big companies from avoiding tax for starters. Then you might have the political will and public support to make these necessary changes.

You can only tax the 'rich' so much before there is not enough of them to tax. Tax + NI for many is already over 50%. Some in the marginal zone pay over 60%. And the proportion of rich in the UK is tiny and median wages are low. I Lead in the NHS - personal responsibility is extremely low in the UK. Rich companies need to pay but a large proportion of the population will need to pay more in tax to have enough to transform education. Otherwise you will just tinker and the gap will continue to widen. The buck stops with all of us - not some

And it isn't just how schools look - that is just a simple example. In London, many state schools were I live have similar or marginally better academic results than local private schools but the school experience and rounded experience is still worth paying for

Have you ever looked at Christ’s hospital school or Reed’s in Cobham? Or do you only look at harrow and Eton? The former are life changing schools.

@Begsthequestion You cannot look back and think things are the same now. I live in a grammar county. DC are tutored like mad to get to the grammars. They don’t always have the brightest dc, they have the overtutoted dc. In my day, we did all the practice at school. Every day. The exam was in March. Now it’s September and parents panic.

We are already a highly taxed nation. If we carry on being a place that taxes highly but has poor services, it’s not a place where companies want to invest. Nor have DC it now appears. Sweden has substantial private healthcare and a decentralized public system running alongside it. We cling to the failing NHS.

So Starmer now stating he is supporting building wealth. Of course all the numpties out there, so so jealous of wealth, want vat added, how dare they have anything, they want money. You see, all of it is about money. Wanting money. But… did they think of that when they were making their choices. Choices to work hard at school, choices how to parent, choices in jobs, whether to bother getting up? But don’t worry, vote Starmer, he’ll make you instantly rich- so he says

I have actually and know those schools very well. I know families currently at CH and former students. But, I think kids in Yorkshire, kids in East London, in Devon and Shropshire etc, and up and down the country have a right to quality education from their local state schools. And I'm voting for a government that understands that need for the country. As a society we should want that for all our children not just the select few.