VAT and removal of 50% cap on scholarships

[lovepenguin]

I'm not in favour of Labour's policy on adding VAT to private schools. However I do wonder whether the private schools no longer have to adhere to the 50% cap on scholarships from the charity commission, if they lose the charity status. Will scholarships be more generous?

I know :( but it’s so bad for the bright and talented kids who miss out. The extra curricular is usually exceptional . Ironically you are also paying for state school places without using them. The numpties and envy cloth heads don’t seem to realise nor understand the other side of the fence.

I do wonder how many would-be private school kids will now fail at state school, without all that extra help and support that private schools provide.

I’m not sure they do provide that much extra support. They provide an excellent all round education. Usually great sport and many clubs, plus great drama and music. Many dc in them are self starters and reasonably confident. Boarding dc do prep with no parents around. From what I’ve observed the parents in the state schools who fall over themselves giving DC help.

They do provide extra and I doubt they would fail. In London most are very selective so in the state system they would be naturally upper quartiles anyway. Not all but most. It baffles me how many misconceptions people have about independent schools and the kids and teachers and parents and misconceptions / stereotypes about state school kids, parents and teachers. They are mostly all stereotypes and misconceptions,

Agreed. Lots of state school kids being tutored to within an inch of their lives.

On the contrary, private schools are full of kids who would struggle to succeed in state schools without all that extra support. They're not going to get into grammar schools so I suspect private tutors will be doing very well in the near future.

7% is over 35,000 children, 1% is 5000 children. That is a lot of families with kids getting luxury education discounted or free each year. Did not realise it was that much

Apart from VAT, fees were rising disproportionately anyway and many where being priced out. And with inflation/COL etc - I am sure many parents start to feel less generous.

Hopefully, the economy grows and people prosper and therefore are not only able to pay VAT but also continue with the bursaries. If one is lucky enough to be wealthy, it does feel really good to know your fees are not only supporting your child, but many others (via VAT, paying for an unused state place and subsidising bursary places).

Any incoming government needs to have a plan to support state schools, where the majority go and this won't touch the sides. I really hope the population will hold them to account cos the majority of private parents will keep their kids in and their kids will still enjoy a better education than the average state kid - unless the government really prioritises education and funds it properly. If most state schools are excellent, there would be no need or very little need to pay and that would be the real existential threat to private schools

Why do you think they would fail in state schools? Fail what? What evidence do you have? You seem to have prejudice and stereotyping guiding you?

Plenty of bright dc in independent schools! My DD got a grammar school place. Lots did in DD2s old prep too. The big difficulty these dc, if forced to leave an independent school, won’t find state school places available. So more might just take the place at the grammar at 11. Then less places for appeals.

This sounds like your wishful thinking

As if the grammars don’t have over tutored dc from the state sector!!!

If they pass the 11+ then of course they can take a grammar school place, just like anyone else.

Wasn't a thing in mine.

Exactly and even though we are trying to do an excellent job, the state system needs 15 billion, not 1 billion. It's a massive lie that the money they will get from vat is going to work in any shape or form. Schools individually need too much money plus teachers can only work with that pupils they have. If the pupils have a good school it's just a tiny % of what makes them successful. A HUGE and overriding success recipe is the parenting, home life, their personality and genetics.

If the pupils have a good school it's just a tiny % of what makes them successful.

That may be a comforting view, but it doesn't reflect reality.

"The Sutton Trust’s Leading People (2016), and the Social Mobility Commission’s Elitist Britain (2014) painted a picture of a country whose power structures are dominated by a narrow section of the population: the 7% who attend independent schools, and the roughly 1% who graduate from just two universities, Oxford and Cambridge. Looking at the five years since 2014, Elitist Britain 2019 shows isolated pockets of positive change, but a picture characterised by persistent inequality."

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/elitist-britain-2019/elitist-britain-2019-the-educational-backgrounds-of-britains-leading-people

Maybe fail is a bit strong, however, it likely that they would not do as well in a state school. Just like state school children would likely do better in private schools. This is one of the main reasons parents choose private schools as they know that their children will have more resources and hence do better in their exams - yes there are other reasons but if people are honest it's about getting excellent results. This is why universities have contextual offers for many who attend state schools as they know it's harder to get good results in state schools compared to private, not impossible, I know and there are many examples, but when you compare results of private versus state they are miles apart.

The education system is fundamental unfair in this country if you can pay you get excellence and choice and that is not fair.

You are assuming that the teaching is not excellent in state schools? I would beg to differ. The outcomes are different because of other factors. School is just 1/3 or less of the determiner of success. To assume anything more is just denial

Don’t believe everything you read. Lots of data will have political bias.

I think you should read something properly before you decide if you believe it or not. Otherwise you're dismissing it based on prejudice and stereotypes, which I gather you're quite against.

School is just 1/3 or less of the determiner of success. To assume anything more is just denial

Can you link me to your source for that stat? I'd like to compare the study with the one I just posted that says otherwise.

I have been teaching for 25 years in state schools. I am telling you, we are only a small % of impact.

Are you really a teacher?

I'm quite surprised to read that.

Can you just post the link to the stats you quoted before?

Well that begs the question why do people spend all that money on private schools. Frankly, I believe the teaching is better in state schools being one myself (😂). But you and others are simply in denial if you think you’re not doing this to give your child a head start! Hence, the unfairness of it all!

You haven’t addressed my comment about universities seeing right through this and giving contextual offers to state school children as a consequence of the unfairness.

I teach in state, my children are in state. I have many who go to private after us. I am not threatened by it.

Interesting as a state school teacher who has been teaching as you I strongly disagree