VAT and removal of 50% cap on scholarships

[lovepenguin]

I'm not in favour of Labour's policy on adding VAT to private schools. However I do wonder whether the private schools no longer have to adhere to the 50% cap on scholarships from the charity commission, if they lose the charity status. Will scholarships be more generous?

@Hatty999 I’m not threatened by it, but I see the unfairness of it all! My eyes are open to this clearly yours are not.

They should remove charitable status- private schools are not charities, they are businesses and some are very wealthy land and property owners.

Our ego might want to say different but you do know deep down, that your pupils hand genetics and home life - natural ability etc that totally defines their outcomes.

It is headlines and lies. Nothing will change - not for the good. We need billions but that is not the answer. Envy will not solve it

Ok so you want to start down the nature versus nurture debate!! We could go on forever arguing about that! But the bottom line is our system is unfair there is no denying this whether you like it or not and it does have an impact.

If you really are a teacher, I would hope you're aware that 1/3 is not actually "a small percentage" either.

Using the critical thinking skills I was taught at school, I'm going to trust government research above your anecdotes.

It is not envy that is a ridiculous line people pull to keep the is unfairness going in society. We need a fair and balanced society and tackling inequality in education would make a massive difference.

Around half of private schools don’t have charitable status.

I didn't say they all had, I said it should be removed. They are not charities although they masquerade as charities.

It is envy - it is blaming one’s outcomes on those who are more successful. People have to take ownership, have drive etc. Why should those parents put plasters on social issues? It’s the govt as usual not addressing the core issues.,Britain lacks a lot of social support and core strength

They give millions to society

What are you basing your assertions of envy on?

Can you think of any other reasoning behind people's opposition to private schools?

As a teacher these kinds of thought exercises should be familiar to you.

Well - they will have to start giving contextual offers to account for high IQ stay at home mums, tutoring, stable homes! Contextual offers are not for all state school students but based on socioeconomic factors- which is correct. I could earn £millions a year and send my kid to state school. Employers and universities know my kid will obviously have a better chance of doing better compared to a child who has no space or quiet or encouragement to study at home or parental time to support them to do so or funds for extra support with tutoring.
People pay to access a more favourable environment for their kids. It can of course result in better grades but if state schools are properly resourced, a difference of 24 in a private primary and 30 in a state school primary both with TAs, should be extremely marginal academically. Similar to nice aesthetics and afternoon teas in a private hospital bed but surgical outcomes the same or better in NHS when things where better.

I’m just not against them. They serve some people well. They do bursaries, they come and work with state schools. Our children do well, if they want to, and their families support them . The govt are arseholes, they massively underfund state schools. They know the supported kids / families will do well and those families who don’t value it all, will not. About £5 per head will not change that.

You are kidding right... you mean people who have been lucky and inherited money?

Stereotypes - so so many are not there on inherited money. Are you only thinking of ETON?

Achievement is all about family life and social issues. Benefits culture etc. It is not the fault of those who achieve. The doctors who révises exams for hours, the lawyers who got there through study etc. Come on. Do not perpetuate these false myths

I do agree with you on the government being to blame massively, but I still strongly disagree regarding private education - it should be the same for all children regardless of background - state schools should be aesthetically pleasing nice environments, small numbers in a class etc. - why is this only for those that can pay! There should be no need for private schools.

I grew up in council housing, state school, I studied, family wanted me to do well. Thousands like me. Nothing about the independent sector affected my outcomes.

As long as we live in a capitalist society, money will provide access to commodities and the more money you have or prioritise for a thing the more of it you can access. Building a society that is more meritocratic is the goal - where people are rewarded for the effort applied. Whatever school you go to, presumably you still have to understand what is taught, study and apply that knowledge and pass exams. Most private schools I know, still have parents pay for tutoring when their kids struggle so I am not convinced the teaching is better in private. The environment should be, the 1-2-1 attention should be, the extra trappings (trips, concerts etc) and usually all parents are aspirational if academically selective so less likely to be fighting with the school about not wanting to do homework or kids being bullied for being studious for example. But similar can be replicated at home if lucky enough to have aspirational parents who are not overworked!

Ok I was over exaggerating - I am aware that not everyone who goes private has inherited money but this idea that you can choose to go private if you make sacrifices is nonsense - lots of people could work three jobs and give up holidays and never be able to afford private school.

The system is unfair and to say otherwise is to be in denial.

Because !!! State schools have to be paid by taxes. We have high high benefits draining the system, we have so many things draining the system. Billion £ earners not taxed properly, dodgy govt giving contracts to their mates but you want to penalise the junior doctors who can just scoot afford private, etc? Nothing positive will come of it except the glee of everyone trying not to drown in the sh** filled pond

This argument is quite depressing and been going on since I became a parent. It's fine to have choice and if you want to send your kids to private school, that's ok. However, the majority of kids in this country go to state schools and if we want to have a better country and thriving economy etc it needs to be invested in and if that means raising VAT, if Labour do that, on private schools so be it. Private schools are businesses and like anything, if they pass that cost onto their customers, the consumer will be able to decide if it's worth it for them or not. The percentage of shared grounds and resources argument is a drop in the ocean in terms of charitable impact on the state sector. I never feel that argument sticks. The current government has not invested in the state sector. I want a government that will make those kids, who are the majority of society, a priority when it comes to education, not an afterthought.

As usual the govt let the masses go off the real scent by presenting an alternative one that serves them better

They are already cutting bursary places. This creates a massive elitist issue that currently has grey areas. My nephew secured a bursary - no father and social housing. He is talented at sport- will the govt support him on that at £5 per head? Two schools said no bursaries due to predicted vat.