Dd moved schools, in wrong sets

[Norpeth]

We recently moved house and Dd (year 8) moved schools.

After a few weeks of being at her new school, we've realised DD has been put in the lowest sets (out of 6) for every subject that is ranked by ability. Now DD isn't a child genius but I'd have expected her to have at least been in sets 2/3, probably even 1 for English.

On top of this, the behaviour and disruption in her classes is unbelievable. She says most of the lesson is spent telling off students, warnings being written out and kids being sent out ect. There are chairs being thrown ect. The kids talk through the lessons and most of her lessons are being taught by supply teachers who just give out a work sheet and aren't bothered if the work is done or not. A few of the teachers have even commented that she is the only one who does the work. The higher sets only get occasional supply teachers. At the moment, her class does not have a proper maths or language teacher.

Anyway, I spoke to her head of year who confirmed most of this (including that kids in her classes aren't interested in learning and the behaviour is awful, which I actually found quite concerning about how he spoke about these kids. He has clearly given up on them!)

He went and spoke to her teachers and called me back saying every teacher he spoke to said she needed to be in much higher sets. I asked when I could expect her to be moved and he said hopefully by September but there's no room in the higher sets so he didn't really know.

Can I insist on having her moved? I don't know where to go from here. I'm considering telling him I will homeschool until a space in the higher sets becomes available.

Dds English teacher spoke to dd after this and told her she needed to be in her higher sets and would enjoy it more as more work gets done and there is much less 'silliness'.

Has anyone else had similar? Thank you!

you need to speak to the head master and tell him you will be going to lea if it's not sorted and reporting to ofsted as this is a massive failure to provide education

I think they should have adjusted at Easter, and if you aren't yet back after the Easter break I would be pushing for that.
A school should be willing in y8 to adjust sets termly if needed imo.
The set she needs to be in may be 'full' but she should be at most 1 set below that.

Ask when they reassess sets. At DDs school they review every term... but you can only move up one set. Someone has to move down to let someone else move up. The higher sets are bigger, but there is a maximum.

Would class sizes not have the same rules as pupil intake sizes? What if all other classes are at their full capacity?

I really feel for you op. I hadn't thought about this before but I bet this happens a lot. Every parent who started their kid in year 7 would have been desperate to get their dc out of that class. To the point that the others are now at capacity. And every new child will be placed there.

Thanks for the advice. I'd be happy for her to be a set, or at a push 2, below her ability but bottom set for everything is just ridiculous and she's just not learning anything.

I will see what happens on her first day back after easter and be calling back on her second day if nothing has been sorted.

Are there any other schools in the area?

Check if other schools nearby have space.

If there are 32 kids in the other sets and only 32 tables and chairs, they aren't going to be able to move her.
The chances of another child needing to move from set 2/3 to bottom set, therefore creating room, is pretty small.

I would be looking at another school at this point and be sure to ask what their policy is regarding sets and newcomers.

Lower sets are typically smaller, which is why new pupils will be placed there as thats where they have space. To move your child up they would need to move a student (or several depending on how many sets she goes up) down, they would be unable to do this without attainment data to back up their decision when communicating to parents.

change schools , there is no space in the higher sets

I worked in education for a long time.

Kids who came in out of normal entrance e periods were often placed in groups by the school administration who had no idea of their ability, the groups with spaces were usually the bottom sets so this happened a lot.

At my school we had end of year exams and all the groups were re-done based on that so I imagine based on what the school have said that they have a similar system,

Again, higher sets are normally full (or over full) and so for her to go up someone needs to move down and those parents usually kick off.

Are any of her subjects mixed ability? That will help. You can also ask for the topics etc that they are studying to look at outside school and make sure she does well in the end of year exams.

The problem is that there will be a maximum number of desks and chairs that can fit in a room. And if Set 2 is full, someone else has to move down. It’s unlikely to be a straight swap from Set 2 to Set 6, so what really has to happen is a number of moves.
Sets may not be independent of each other. At my school, Science, maths, IT and RS sets are the same, and Science limits the size. I have 30 places at fixed lab benches. I cannot just squeeze one more kid in, so neither can the other subjects in my bubble.
In the school I teach in, not all sets are timetabled at the same time, so you might need 5 kids to have a totally new timetable impacting all their lessons. This is a huge headache, and unlikely to happen at this stage in the year.
One solution would be to ask if your child could be added to the Google classroom for the appropriate set, so she could see the work. Or perhaps see if a teacher in a higher set could help her in tutor time.

Sorry if I wasn't clear before. I realise if the class is full, the class is full. It was more just asking if there are any obvious solutions that I hadn't thought of. There is one other school but with a huge waiting list.

Does anyone think my homeschooling until a place is available is a viable option?

I would start by asking if she could be set the higher group work when attending the lower set lesson.
Attend any extracurricular clubs, like a science club.

If you homeschool then while you are homeschooling you do not have a place at the school,

At the point you apply to the school again the same thing is likely to happen.

If they re do all the sets for September then that is probably (mainly) based on the end of year tests which she'd need to be in school for to get put in the right place.

How many subjects are set? Some schools are much more mixed ability than others.

Your poor DD! What a waste of potential.

What if after home schooling the school no longer has a place available for her? Even if they do have a space, as a non-assessed new student she will still be placed in classes that have the most space.

What you can do:

Ask for the list of topics for each subject

If there is a Google classroom/teams group for each class ask for her to be added to the set above so she can see their work and do it at home

Look at what they studied in the autumn term in year 8 and teach it to her (this will not be the same in different secondaries - eg one secondary might do the British empire another might do the First World War). You need to get her caught up on that to do well in the end of year exams.

Check with the head of year when the assessment points are - are there end of year exams? Do they have end of module assessments?

Make sure your DD does well in assessments so you have evidence for a set move.

@Norpeth re the 'long' waiting list at the other school, what matters isn't how many in total are on the list, but where your DD would be ranked on it against the schools published admissions criteria, we're a place to become available. Have you actually applied for a place there?

I would definitely homeschool until a place in the right set is available rather than subject my child to this awful behaviour and zero learning. (But we homeschooled from 10-15 when school couldn't meet academic needs or stop bullying). It's likely the threat will add our head teacher to find a space for your dd rather than have the Lea ask why you're homeschooling.

If you homeschool you will lose your school place and go back to square one. Could you speak with the head teacher?

I'd be amazed if every set above hers in all six of these subjects is full with 32 kids in it. This is unlikely to be the case as kids leave etc etc.

I would say it's more likely the school has a policy of not moving kids during the year, to avoid lots of disruption, complaints etc, so to an extent they are fobbing you off (they may have decent reasons for this policy usually, but this is an exceptional case).

Tell the head of year, politely of course because it's not his fault, he doesn't make the rules, that you are extremely concerned, can't wait until september, and can he please peak to the heads of department and see what can be done.

If he won't, your next step is to contact the head. And if the head won't help contact the governors. But hopefully when they see you are persistent they will move her.

This is my advice having worked in a number of secondaries over the years, some of which had issues over setting.

(It's why I much favour mixed ability - nobody deserves to be in a set where there are always supply teachers and learning can't take place - it's shockingly bad of the school to allow this because the kids are academically weaker).

If the school only has room in bottom sets where no education takes place then fundamentally the school does not have room for your child and your child is not receiving an education. You need to go back to the LA and ask for a school place somewhere that is capable of educating your child. Don't withdraw and homeschool - that means the LA has no further responsibility and can leave it up to you. Your child needs to be registered to a schooltp be the LA's responsibility. If you have capacity to homeschool adequately, you could choose a couple of days a week where the majority of timetabled lessons are these ability-setted disruptive classes and keep her at home on those days doing homeschool lessons on those subjects but keep her registered. Her attendance stats will quickly become unacceptably low because they will have to mark her as unauthorised absent and you can let them know you would be delighted to send her in every day as soon as they can provide an adequate education by including her in sets that are appropriate to her ability.

The school cannot say top sets are full. Bring in extra tables or chairs. Move another child down who is at the bottom of that set. That's how it works in my school.

The problem with you home schooling is she will need to take the end of year assessments so they can set her properly for next year. You could ask the teachers what she should be focusing on for those assessments and homeschool her and make sure she can take the assessments.