DS wants to get into grammar school but won’t put in the work

[Anxiousannie3]

Apologies in advance for the length of this post.

My DS (10) is I would say bright, is at the top of his primary school class for English and maths, always gets top marks for tests and is upset when he gets something wrong. In our local area for secondary options there are 2 comprehensives with a grammar stream and a grammar school. Both DH and I went to grammar schools so know the system.

DS has said he would like to take the kent test to try and get into grammar school but refuses / moans when I try going through some workbooks with him. The primary school he’s at are not doing any mock tests or being encouraging in any way, and DH and I both agreed that getting a tutor wouldn’t be the best for DS (although understand why others do it).

DS is also distracted very easily and has shown some signs of ADHD (in attentiveness / talking over people / can’t sit still etc) my DH is adamant he doesn’t want him tested or “labelled” .

At moment we‘ve tried going through some cgp workbooks with DS, first of all doing 30 minute sittings with him doing it himself (he gets bored after 10) and actually sitting there going through it with him. We always end up arguing as he’s always whining and getting the simplest of questions wrong even though we’ve been through it before. He knows how to answer but keeps making silly mistakes when going through it with me.

my patience is wearing thin - I’ve said to DS is he doesn’t want to take the test we won’t make him, I’d rather him be happy than feeling pressured. however, he keeps saying he wants to take the test and go for grammar school and initially agrees to stop whining and do the work then when it comes down to it it’s the same cycle all over again.

im losing sleep over this , I just don’t know what to do. It’s stressing us all out. Any advice would be appreciated.

Sorry for the spelling errors. Typing in frustration !

Stop doing tests with him. Either get him a tutor (it's likely that he may be more cooperative with a non-family member) or point out that it's up to him to do the work or not and then step away.

You can't force someone to work.

Sounds like a tutor would be a good investment. This kind of thing is a huge part of their value.

You could look for one with experience of bright kids with neuro diversity

Tell him you will not be booking the test unless you see him taking responsibility and studying.
Then don't mention it again. If he doesn't study don't book it.
He can be sad, nothing wrong with that. Let hon feel his feelings with no input or distraction.

I would suggest a tutor… if you can afford it. Children complain a lot less with a professional. I tutored my son so know what you’re going through.. we had no choice but definitely looking back would have been better with someone else.

If he won't do a mock test how will he sit the exam?

I got a tutor for both my dds. Dd1 flew through the exam and scored highly and got her place. Dd2 quit and refused the exam wanting the comp with her friends more - fine. But what she gained from the tutor was worth it at twice the price - she came out confident and focused and doing really well in her weaker areas. I'm so glad I did it regardless of the exam.

I don’t know this system as we don’t have grammar schools but this all feels a bit much for a 10 year old. Probably why his school aren’t doing any mock tests.

Why does he have to go through the workbooks at home if he’s top of his class? Should he not pass the test anyway if he sits it, if he’s top?

Are you sure he actually wants to go to grammar school, does he even understand what it means/is? Is it not you and your husband that want him to go, and have influenced him?

It's so hard and the motivation very much comes and goes. If you really don't want tutoring, I'd really recommend the 10 minute tests. Little and often worked much better for DS. It's only really next summer you need to start building up the stamina for the full tests but if he can do the questions in the 10 min tests within the time, that's a great start.

We ended up with this approach, after much trial and error, with DS and it worked. He sat Bexley last Sept and passed comfortably. Did do some mock Tests in the summer.

Also getting a sense of what he's working towards might help?.I think DS really only bought into it when he went to a year 5 taster at one of the schools and fell in love with it.

Do you have to pay for these exams?
If not I would actually just book it then. He either fails or pass but either way dont get into the drama.

Why don’t you just let him sit the test anyway? Regardless whether he studies for it. If he’s bright enough he will pass it, surely.

Some kids will pass without tuition so just leave him to it. It's not the end of the world if he fails it. 80% of children used to fail when selection was compulsory, they survived.

It would be more useful to get him assessed for ADHD.

His father is not doing him the slightest favour in preventing him from accessing diagnosis, possible treatment, support and reasonable adjustments.

Not "labelling" a child that turns out to have ADHD is unfeasibly cruel.

It's a disorder that means your brain works differently to others and those children will experience significantly more difficulty at secondary when compared to primary school. If your child has ADHD and would need medication just to get themselves through the school day, not "labelling" them is the greatest disservice you could do your child.

I say this as someone with a child with ADHD who is at a grammar school and doing well, but without diagnosis and help in place, would likely hardly go to school at all.

11+ does work like that. Firstly, at the time they take the 11+ (start of year 6), they havn't done the year 6 work, so there'll be things on the 11+ test that they've not done in schools. Secondly, some of the type/format of questions in the 11+ tests won't have been done in primary schools at all. Exam technique and practising exam questions is essential to pass the 11+ exam, and that's just not done at primary school.

Thanks all for your input, didn’t expect so many answers !

Theres no forcing him to go to grammar school just because we did, both DH and I would be happy for him to go to any of the schools as long as he was happy.

We have also been doing the 10 minute tests, these are the ones he gets wrong when he’s in the wrong mood, but in a good mood is getting them all right.

It seems pretty unanimous I should take a step back from it all, which I will, and see what happens over the next few months. I don’t want to stress DS out anymore. Thanks all.

Got me at " labelled "😡
You get diagnosed for physical health conditions... so what's the difference with a mental health condition..
ADHD is not a label if you have it.. it's a medical condition..and you get more help with a diagnosis.

He wants to go to the grammar school but he doesn't want to do the work.

A lot of kids are like this for gcse as well - they all want to do well but only some are prepared to put in extra effort.

He wants to be bright enough to go without working.

Up to you whether you try to get him to knuckle down or not, but if he isn't prepare to put in extra work he doesn't really want you to go.

I would get a tutor. Our two weren't particularly keen to work either but we got them through it mostly by bribery! I'm glad we persisted, especially with the youngest who is very academic. He's now top of his year in science and maths and hoping to go to Oxford, which I think would have been very difficult with our local non grammar alternatives.

I know in the past, Kent state schools weren’t allowed to do preparation for the Kent 11 + test.

When we were going through this process, this website was very useful.

https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/

My DS (10) is I would say bright, is at the top of his primary school class for English and maths, always gets top marks for tests and is upset when he gets something wrong.
He is currently a big fish in a small pond. But Grammars are bigger ponds and he may not be the shoo-in that he thinks he is. It might be an idea to point this out to him.
It's also worth pointing out that tests (which show that you have learnt a current topic) are different from entrance exams (which are designed to differentiate you from all the other DC who have also learnt those topics. The opposition probably know a few more advanced ones, too).

Is he into sport? You can probably do an analogy where the winner of the Premier League doesn't win because they beat the bottom-of-the-table club. Most clubs do that! They win because they beat their nearest competitors in to second / third / etc place. It's not just a case of turning up; it's a case of being strategic in your effort.

Why stress?

Let him sit the test with no prep.

I think you need to be aware of the pressure within the grammar system. Both mine were in grammar and were expected to work very hard within it (4 pieces of homework a night in many cases), so being able to work within this pressured system is important. Will your DS be able to do that or will he struggle?

I'd ask him why he wants to go to grammar, what he thinks will be required of him once there.

Stop putting pressure on him, he needs to do it for him not for you

GET HIM ASSESSED FOR ADHD 😡

My secondary school years were absolutely shit, and I now realise I was undiagnosed ADHD from reading posts on MN etc which are like peering into my own brain, which has had life long knock on effects.

FFS, if your son were experiencing excessive thirst and urination, you wouldn't avoid taking him to the doctors for a T1 diabetes diagnosis, as you wouldn't want him to have a diabetes "label". I know that ADHD is not life threatening in the way that ketoacidosis is, but it's absolutely debilitating in terms of quality of life and occupational/educational progress and mental health. (I know that should be directed towards your DH, but step up and advocate for your son. Please.)

Let him sit it but only with the effort he is willing to put in. It is unlikely his attitude would change at grammar so it might be unsustainable to tutor against his will to pass. Agree getting an assessment now would be useful.