If your child won a place at a competitive secondary….

[LeopardPJS]

… was it obvious from the start of primary school that they were academically gifted?
I’m just curious because in year two, my daughter is sort of middle of the pack/ not great on reading / definitely not one of the top kids in her class (though she is lovely and creative and we wouldn’t have her any other way obviously!)
She is an enthusiastic learner who loves school, and clearly takes a lot of the learning in, but is only ‘at expectation’ for most subjects and is ‘at the lower end of expectation’ for reading (though not actually ‘behind’ according to the teacher just lacking a bit of fluency and confidence)
I think this all probably means she isn’t going to be super academic, but my mum thinks it’s too early to tell and academic talents can make a later showing.
Who is right?!

@dumpkin this is a really interesting point about the falling headcount issue feeding through into secondaries. I know my daughters year was quite a fortunate one to be applying to primary because of that - I think the flight from inner London and covid etc definitely impacted the numbers applying for primaries in hackney, and as a result the catchment for ours wasn’t as tight as it had been in some of the previous years (luckily for our DD). Was quite a marginal impact though. Can you see this making a real difference at secondary level, where applications for the sought-after schools come in from such a wide area including suburbs north of London (where a lot of people presumably moved to from areas like ours?!)? I can’t really see it - surely the more dramatic impact, if it feeds through, is more likely to be what’s happening with London primaries - the under subscribed ones just becoming more under subscribed than ever, and some being forced to close?

The London primary has more and more space available in the coming years it is across the broad.

DD was average amongst a cohort of above average kids at primary. A good reader, creative, imaginative, low average for maths.
Was tutored for one year in small groups setting. Soared at English and NVR. Maths much improved.
Did astonishingly well at 11+ (better than we expected) so I think we may have underestimated her abilities. Ranked in top 100 out of over a thousand.
Decent performance at high school, steady, conscientious. It all came together in the last couple of years and she's come out with very good GCSE's. Grade 9 in Maths and 7 in FM. (Not taking Maths at A level)
Primary schools don't always bring out the academic side of kids, I'm happy that DD had a lovely time at school but it was the more focused (and very high quality) teaching at her tutors that filled in lots of gaps in her understanding.

Some great comps also have language and music ability tests- so it need not all be crazy amounts of academic tutoring. The advantage of staying in London is huge cultural opportunities and excellent public transport.

We don’t know what will happen when Labour gets in. There may be an increase in lottery places and only the super rich will be using private schools. The latter means selective state places will be even more crazy. Since it became so competitive a lot of people are now shying away from the whole toxic 11 plus process, out of principle.

Enjoy the younger years and the great state primary and stop worrying about secondary schools right now. Time to worry is not until year 5. A lot can change in the next 3 years.

A primary teacher once said to me you can tell as much by the parents as the child. By that token your DD is going to do well regardless.

I believe with London primaries, there were some bumper birth years (2008-12 roughly) which saw them expanding their provisions. We had one go from 1 form to 3 form entry and a new 2 form entry open up. Now those kids are in secondary, more places are becoming available. You may see some of those schools shrink.

We were right on the edge of catchment for our primary with DD1 in 2014, DD2 only got a sibling place in 2016, but now we'd easily be in catchment.

"you can tell as much by the parents as the child."

At primary year 2 this is so true.

Well I’m learning so much from this thread - thank you all so much for all the advice and encouragement and for indulging my neuroses about this bewildering process. Thanks a lot @Araminta1003 for your kind words and that thoughtful advice, you’re so right about the advantages of being in London, and also that so much could change over the next few years. And @Beamur thanks for sharing your story, which gives me a lot of hope for my similar sounding DD (although she is the other way around on reading vs maths!) it sounds like you pitched it just right in terms of getting her the right support when she needed it, and that it’s really paid off for her.

Can you see this making a real difference at secondary level, where applications for the sought-after schools come in from such a wide area including suburbs north of London (where a lot of people presumably moved to from areas like ours?!)? I can’t really see it - surely the more dramatic impact, if it feeds through, is more likely to be what’s happening with London primaries - the under subscribed ones just becoming more under subscribed than ever, and some being forced to close?

It is impacting primaries that traditionally would be oversubscribed hence why catchments are increasing & even in oversubscribed primaries in London the upper years tend to thin out where families switch to private or move out. Every pupil counts budget wise because schools need certain things regardless of numbers.

I said it would create more division in secondaries. I think the very popular ones will become even more in demand but I think the traditional back up/2nd choice options will suffer more as opposed to just the “bad” ones.

Yes definitely. Dd has always stood out in terms of cognitive development from around age 1.

My younger dc were never as academic in primary, but very different skill sets and personality types. They didn't try for selective grammars as they were going to private school so I don't have a benchmark to compare. Maybe they would have got in but I don't know!

We were told from nursery (montessori) that our eldest was exceptionally bright, yes. Got into a top secondary school, got perfect sets of grades for GCSEs and A Levels and on track for a 1st in a highly academic subject at a top uni.
Second was always more middle of the road, with talents in other directions (eg drama). Also did well, at a much less prestigious secondary, and got a very good set of GCSE results. Won't be aiming as high (in ranks) for uni applications but should do fine.