Rules on putting a hand one children, eg putting hand out to stop them expiring doing something

[Whstaretheruies]

What are the rules on physically touching students eg a student I'd reaching for something and a hand is put one their arm tk stop them and then snatching things and pulling things from them... Escalating the situation.

If there was a tug of war over the computer the child was not following the teachers instructions and was pulling the computer away from staff. I think it is probably pointless responding. You have decided that your dc should be allowed to do the things they want during the lesson regardless of whether the teacher agrees. Your dc is likely not doing their work. When the teacher says they need to do the lesson work your dc gets angry and refuses to do as they are asked. You then look for reasons to complain or suggest the teacher does not understand autism. Before you accuse me of a similar issue I have two autistic children who are very severely affected.

What you should be more concerned about is how much of the lesson your dc is listening to and completing. Ultimately your dc will leave school either with or without qualifications. Completing the set work and focusing provide more chance of doing well If they get a job after leaving education or while studying to pay their way, their boss is unlikely to say it is OK to play solitaire on the company's time unless they are a very laid back employer or your dc has a large amount of freedom in their role.

I dont think wrestling a computer out of a child’s hands is ever a good idea @Querty123456 .

If it had been about protecting other children, then fair enough - as long as they have been trained to safely restrain. (I assume this is what you mean by ‘reasonable force’).
However, in a situation like the one the OP describes, I’m pretty that deescalation techniques would have been much more appropriate.

It would undoubtedly have been better for the teacher to have your child removed if they won't cooperate with a reasonable instruction.

Asking a child to log off or put away a computer is a reasonable instruction if it is being used inappropriately.

@cansu what you say is true. For an NT child.

The child in this scenario is on the spectrum. Your assumptions ‘about completing the work’ and ‘what will happen once they start work’ are not reflecting the reality.

OP, I think your issue is that the teachers are demanding conformity from your child without acknowledging need. If solitaire in the background provides a focus they think inappropriate, they need to provide an equal focus.

To be blunt, it sounds like what's happening is teachers are now targeting your kid specifically in order to stop him having solitaire on in the background. They won't give a shit if it helps him focus, they're only out to control that one thing - stopping the card game. I've seen this time and again with my autistic son. Teachers have told me it doesn't look like he's focusing, he's playing with x, he looks out the window when I talk... anyway he's on course for extremely high GCSEs. Focus doesn't always look like what people expect it to. They need to stop escalating the situation.

I'm well aware teachers are overworked and underpaid, but I've also seen my son unfairly targeted and punished for shit that his neurotypical peers got away with. If a card game helps your kid focus and doesn't disrupt the class, it's a reasonable adjustment. And by "disrupt" I don't mean five or six NT kids whining about how it's not "fair" that he gets to have something they have to hide/do in secret.

Doesn't show that they've been told off for them. Ds uses fiddle toys and blue tac and never was told off or prevented, but prefers not to have them out. He often uses them in his pockets. He does the same at home.

Asking a child to log off or put away a computer is a reasonable instruction if it is being used inappropriately.

Well that’s the point.
The OP says it would be appropriate for that child and actually helpful.
The teacher clearly didn’t think so. (and didnt react appropriately to a child with autism. It was likely that the child ended end up lashing out due to the touching etc….).

I don’t know many autistic people who are happy to ‘show’ their stims.
What do you think is the reason?

The OP is not the teacher in charge of that class. If the OP wants their child to be able to play cards on the computer in lesson time they need to discuss that with the senco.

Who says it helps him focus? Kids with autism are still kids. I am sure that many kids would say it helps them to focus to play games or to listen to music etc etc. What they mean is they prefer it or they like it. That doesn't mean they should do it.

On many threads I have read parents despairing that their teen often with asd plays computer games all night and refuses to get up for college etc. If you allow teens with autism to only do the things they like or feel comfortable with you can end up with a child who simply can't function or who won't achieve in line with their ability. It also happens with teens with anxiety. Parent requests that teen remains in pastoral base when they feel anxious. Pretty soon teen spends all their time in base and is failing all their exams. Sometimes the answer does have to be no. A short time out or a ten minute break outside the room with a laptop might be a better adjustment which should be agreed in advance.

I wouldn't mind a no and a full explanation.

The issue is I'm not convinced at all that the teacher understands anything about autism and sensory issues. The teacher won't consider for one moment that what they are stopping the student front doing is actually what's keeping them calm and they can work and play a mindless game.
The teacher has no sen training and doesn' see that removing the game they are sparking this escalating behavior.

Because there is no where else to do go.

If the teacher said " I've closely observed x and yes they are able to play and work, I can see it helps their over all behavior.

However... X y and z... But I'm not getting that and dc is very gentle and not a threat to anyone.
There is no need for hands laid on its bizzare and never happens before.
Anyway I think the long and short is main stream won't work.

Not allowed to leave the room for breaks, not allowed noisy fidget toys, child needs a few.
Not allowed too do the very thing that keeps them calm.

You still haven't said what their ECHP states as a reasonable adjustment.

I teach several students with autism and they all get different adjustments. I'm not letting Bob listen to music because that's not his... he might want to but that's not the same thing.

What class is it where they don't need to look at the teacher/board/other computer screen/interact with peers?

I think you need to focus on agreeing other ways to help your child stay calm. Movement breaks or sensory breaks are standard for a child with autism or ADHD who struggles to sit still. This ought to be in the EHCP.

I don't think playing a game on a computer is really appropriate in a lesson and it probably is affecting his concentration. It would be better to meet his sensory needs by letting him move etc rather than finding ways to just "keep him quiet".

"you need to concentrate on how much work your dc is completing"

We know, they concentrate better when they are allowed to doodle, fidget, play solitaire. They are very bright and listen better when doing something else
They can't sit still and listen however with no other activity.
I wonder if some of these more terse replies where I have repeatedly stated child needs secondary activity to learn are teachers?
If so there is no hope really is there.

@SoIRejoined movement breaks are not allowed at all by teacher.

What does the child's EHCP say he needs to be allowed to do?

Yes, we get all this but what does it state on his EHCP? That details the requirements and adjustments that must be made, so there is little point in you saying that he works better if playing solitaire if his EHCP doesn't. Usually a badly written EHCP will say " reasonable adjustments " but unfortunately this is then down to the discretion of the teachers, if they don't think playing solitaire in a lesson is reasonable, they don't have to permit it.

Yes its a developmental disability

Have worked in SEN educational role before. Agree you need to get it (or something broader/more flexible if you feel that's appropriate) put on his EHCP / IEP.

Instead of repeating about what you think are helpful interventions/accommodations on Mumsnet, go and tell it to the school! The whole point of the EHCP / IEP is to honour and implement that.

Teachers vary in SEN awareness but regardless, even a highly trained SEN specialist can't let it be a free for all. Being kids, kids will always want to take the piss a bit. Teachers have to figure out the balance between necessary/helpful accommodations and being so laissez faire that the children are not learning the lesson material or developing skills. You can help in this process! Officially, you are entitled to! Do it in real life instead of Mumsnet :)

I think this is the real issue, if it is agreed that your child ( I am assuming you are the parent) is allowed distracting activities in the classroom then everyone involved ( teacher, SENCO, TA, 1-1, lab assistants, and of course the child)needs to be aware of what the activities are and when they are allowed. The activities obviously need not to be distracting to other pupils.

It sounds as though either a) the person doing the touching was not aware of the agreement for distraction and did not realise what the consequences would be of removing them or b) the child was pushing the boundaries to get access to a distraction that was not agreed to and the person doing the touching was trying to deal with this.

Hard to tell from the posts.

OP you need to speak to the senco and if you don't already have good adjustments written into the EHCP then get them added. I would suggest movement breaks should be in there. Then the teacher can't refuse.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/use-of-reasonable-force-in-schools

His coping strategies need to be written into his EHCP then. You need to speak to the SENDCO and get those strategies documented and agreed upon (with a plan to deescalate).