A good academic private girls/co-ed school with high proportion of state primary school intake in London, does it exist?

[LondonAutumn]

DD will be sitting 11+ exam this year. She is very academic from a state primary school in London. We are looking for academic independent schools that offer a broad intake in terms of means and social class. We want her to benefit from the private sector resources, but also not to completely lost the experience social diversity in her education. We are interested in London independent secondary schools that have a high percentage, say 50% or higher, of students from the maintained sector. We want to avoid schools that have a low state school intake. Is there any latest statistics on this for London schools? We are temporarily renting and can relocate as needed.

A good academic private girls/co-ed school with high proportion of state primary school intake, does it exist?

@DibbleDooDah ”The real problem is the state education system has been neglected and underfunded for many years”

This is absolutely the case. I don’t think parents send their children to private schools to shield them from poor people as suggested but because they want a good education for them. Sadly, the government has failed to fund schools properly - it’s a dire situation with few arts, music or so called extra curricular subjects that are fundamental to a kids development.

The best local schools to us are church of england schools adding another unnecessary complication to the education system.

There are lots of state schools in London which are incredibly good. The OP will have many good state school options available for her daughter. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise. Yet she wants to send her daughter to a private school. She may not be doing this specifically to avoid her daughter being educated alongside poor people. But it is a direct consequence of her actions. We should all be honest about the consequences of our choices and own them.

I teach in a fantastic state school. The idea that a good school is primarily about funding is wrong: funding is only a part of the equation, a school culture (one focussed on learning) is far more important. Obviously private schools will have more funding than state schools, but people who send children to state schools should not say that they are doing it because it is the only good option available to them. This is plain not the case for many people, as evidenced by the many excellent state schools.

Just to make a point about trying to shield children from "poor" people. This was not the case with us. We had no choice of a state school with a sixth form. The only ones were faith schools which we were not eligible for and did not want in any case. This mattered to us as we have friends who teach and they felt that much of the most rewarding teaching is at sixth form level and so schools without a sixth form can struggle to recruit the best teachers. We also went to open days at the local schools which parents stated that they would not go private because they wouldn't be able to change their car every year and go on three or four overseas holidays. We live in an area with high disposable income but education is not valued as something to spend this on. Think TOWIE type attitudes. We wanted to shield our children from that attitude to education not from poverty. We also wanted an ethnically diverse school and where we are, that means private. Around 60% non white at the private school we chose. Just wanted to say that it not always a clear cut position.

Our local state primary school seems lovely and we are good friends with several families whose children attend.
However, there is minimal music and sports provision. No sports fixtures, orchestras, choir, bands.
I would love to be able to provide all of this outside school hours but there isn’t the time (some clubs run before school and during lunch to be able fit the range of activities in). I also did not have any prior knowledge of the extent of possible activities, even if they did exist outside school (pop band, jazz band, rock choir) etc).
Our aim is for a holistic education- my children are definitely not sports or music superstars but there is so much to gain from these activities beyond the ball and music skills.
All children should have these opportunities but it isn’t so.

@SouthernFashionista not as ludicrous as you might think, have a look at the uniform and catchment area for this school….
https://www.olov.rbkc.sch.uk/

"It’s laughable that private schools are seen as the problem."

Private schools broaden and entrench inequality. It's absolutely undeniable that this is what they do.

They do this by taking the wealthiest and best supported children in the country and lavishing educational resources on them. They also protect them from the educational fallout which can be the result of being schooled alongside children badly affected by severe social deprivation.

And the evidence of this is there is the academic research.

I appreciate it's a hard pill to swallow if you generally agree with the principle that fairness towards children and equality of educational opportunity matters, but you also want to use your wealth to facilitate your own child to trample over the backs of state educated children in the race for the best university places and jobs.

FWIW St George's Harpenden still only has 7K funding per child, compared to the nearest private schools which charge approximately 15K per year per child. They also have nearly 4% of children on free school meals, which I suspect is higher than any private school anywhere in the country. BTW - you won't find me defending selection by faith.

As for the other school you link to - 50% of children at that Oasis academy are on free school meals, and they have 3 times as many children needing SEN support as the national average. It's cohort is predominantly working class white children, who are by and large the lowest achieving group in the UK (working class white boys that is, girls do marginally better). So all the factors that make a school a tough place for teaching and learning. This is what you end up with when you have a school system which ruthlessly facilitates social selection - while never admitting to doing so. You end up with privilege and disadvantage being concentrated at different schools, which has the effect of magnifying both. It's a horrible, unfair system and really doesn't need defending, regardless of how well it suits your own children.

"We also went to open days at the local schools which parents stated that they would not go private because they wouldn't be able to change their car every year and go on three or four overseas holidays. "

FYI - the average holiday spend per family per year in the UK is 5K.

The average income is 38K.

I live in a professional household in London, and I don't know anyone who has multiple foreign holidays and a new car every year, except really wealthy people whose kids are at fee paying schools.

Bizarre.

I live in London and DC went to a state primary, we do know some family from the school who went to multiple overseas holidays per year and with new shiny car every 2 years (not every year it seems).

In London, the average family disposible income after housing cost is more than 40K.

London has the highest wealth inequality in the country, and the highest percentage of children at fee paying schools, which makes a bit of a nonsense of 'average disposable incomes.'

BTW - most families have two children or more. So two sets of private school fees = 30K a year. At least. That's 10K short of the average London wage.

There's a reason why only 7% of children in the UK go to private school. It's because most people couldn't begin to afford it, even if they forgo the avocado on toast and takeaway coffees.

In London where you live, more than 10% school age children go to private school, in West or SW London Brough this is more than 20-25%.

Also average disposable income is not the same as average London household incomr, which is higher than 40K.

I also live in London and know lots of people who have multiple foreign holidays a year and send their kids to state schools. I also know lots of people who have children at private schools and never go on holiday abroad. You can't generalise.

Same 11plus - I live near a couple of state primaries whose catchment area consists almost entirely of houses costing £1.5m plus. The parents often have the same sort of jobs and income as the local private school parents - but have more disposable income due to the lack of school fees.

I'm not just talking about primaries but secondaries as well. Primaries more so though.

... and it doesn't change the fact that children at private schools are getting roughly 15K a year investment in their education, compared to the 7K a year children at state schools have allocated to their schooling.

And children at fee paying schools are entirely shielded from the educational fallout that often goes hand in hand with of being educated alongside academically struggling children damaged by serious social disadvantage (because this group are completely absent from all private schools).

So again - if we're talking about equality of educational opportunity... <shrug>

Also - it's a bit depressing listening to parents whose kids are at private schools trying to reassure themselves that their child isn't really getting a privileged education, when that's the whole reason they're forgoing the avocado toast to pay school fees in the first place.

@izimbra - I'm not denying my DCs are getting a privileged education. I was simply replying to the poster who didn't believe that wealthy people sent their kids to state schools. My brother for example earns a 7 figure salary and his children went to state schools all the way through.

I work in a state school with some extremely disadvantaged children and am fully aware of what goes on. But equally my DCs live in London and despite going to independent schools are not in some glorified bubble. They have friends at state schools, work in partnership programmes with other local state schools etc. They are lucky and they know it but some of their friends are getting a great education at the local state schools as well. Main differences seem to be less school trips and sport.

It is a bit depressing to hear parents moaning about other parents who choose to pay (in addition to the tax that funds state education) to have an option to get a better education experience. Compared to those who play the state system game - grammar, house catchment, faith, etc (those are surely non minority) . - forgoing avocado on toast, overseas holidays for private education is probably one of the saner ways to have an option for alternative paths.

@PreplexJ not only is it depressing but I am amazed that in the past I have been openly criticised by my family and friends for opting for private education.

I have two friends who are atheists and attending church every Sunday for two years to get into their schools - this seems a lot more accepted by other parents.

By some weird fluke I was privately educated and my home life was quite traumatic. I also grew up in a rough neighbourhood where I would be shouted racist slurs at just walking down the street. School was extremely nice, very academic and a safe place for me. My experience may not be a common one but we can’t judge anyone with one brush stroke.

That school saved this one kids life - me! So I am of course a little bias. Forgoing holidays, fancy things and live in a tiny flat myself so my children can have a good education. Would love it if the state could provide it but happy / lucky to sacrifice some things to make it happen.

The chat on this thread has give me food for thought as everyone’s personal circumstances and experiences are so different :)

But some people do choose to not do the whole ‘buy in a good catchment’, ‘fake religion’ ‘give up luxuries’ etc, things. I don’t like acquiring privilege any which way. If you choose differently then that is ok. only thing that matters is that we can all live with our choices right??

And children at fee paying schools are entirely shielded from the educational fallout that often goes hand in hand with of being educated alongside academically struggling children damaged by serious social disadvantage (because this group are completely absent from all private schools).

So again - if we're talking about equality of educational opportunity... <shrug>

Also - it's a bit depressing listening to parents whose kids are at private schools trying to reassure themselves that their child isn't really getting a privileged education, when that's the whole reason they're forgoing the avocado toast to pay school fees in the first place.

Of course it is a privilege! Often hard earned. I don’t want any child to deal with an “educational fall out” of whatever making.
So much angst wasted looking at private schools when the major inequality is between the state schools.