A good academic private girls/co-ed school with high proportion of state primary school intake in London, does it exist?

[LondonAutumn]

DD will be sitting 11+ exam this year. She is very academic from a state primary school in London. We are looking for academic independent schools that offer a broad intake in terms of means and social class. We want her to benefit from the private sector resources, but also not to completely lost the experience social diversity in her education. We are interested in London independent secondary schools that have a high percentage, say 50% or higher, of students from the maintained sector. We want to avoid schools that have a low state school intake. Is there any latest statistics on this for London schools? We are temporarily renting and can relocate as needed.

A good academic private girls/co-ed school with high proportion of state primary school intake, does it exist?

State school intake is a blunt instrument for all the reasons PPs have mentioned.

We have plenty of kids at our school on bursaries and parents who find the fees a big stretch. I also know lots of wealthy state school parents. If it's ethnic or cultural diversity you're after, our private school is far more diverse than the local state schools.

My advice would be to look at the various options and pick the school which best suits your child. Ethos and atmosphere are more important than focusing on statistics like state school intake.

@MiddleParking unlikely? definitely. possible? unfortunately very much so.
The majority of state primary school around here are NOT like that. But they also don’t send a significant percentage of students to private secondary schools or have results way above the national average. Some schools are in rich areas with tiny catchments, and faith schools are an oddity anyway in terms of intake criteria.
While i’m annoyed at the school in the rich area (its our closest school, but no chance getting in), i have no interest in the faith school (don’t care about religion).

For a real world example, Dulwich Hamlet is a good performing state primary, and a lot of the children there go to the Dulwich schools - JAGS/the College/Alleyns. Last admitted distance for the past 3 years is less than 1km.

The cheapest 3 bed (ie family home) within 1km is almost £900k.

It is unlikely to the point of entire disbelief that a Catholic state school’s admissions criteria are as described by pp or indeed incompatible with one parent working. Ditto that there are two state schools local to that poster where the children are 100% white, wealthy and Christian. I don’t disagree with the point that faith schools and affluent catchments are/can both be exclusionary but I don’t believe any Catholic state primary in London formally requires parental flower arranging. The requirement will almost certainly be baptism and a certain level of Sunday mass attendance. That isn’t really a level playing field, but it isn’t less accessible than or even the same level of inaccessible as private school.

Agree. Anecdotally at least I am aware of three faith schools where friends' DC go (both parents work). All schools required before admission evidence of regular Sunday church attendance, but nothing like parents doing flower arrangements etc necessitating one parent not working at all (sounds bonkers!).

Maybe it happens for one such school, but I would seriously doubt that sort of commitment is the norm in even a small percentage of faith schools.

The London Oratory did previously have admissions criteria that favoured those who flower arranged/did the collection, etc. The Adjudicator put a stop to that. Now, like every other Catholic school I know (and I know a lot) it’s baptism and attendance

That isn’t really a level playing field, but it isn’t less accessible than or even the same level of inaccessible as private school.

How is it any less accessible if you're not Catholic?

The point that the poster raised was essentially that it could be too expensive to get into Catholic state school because of the level of parental involvement precluded two incomes so private school would be the cheaper alternative. That is a nonsense. I’m not arguing that it’s a good thing that state faith schools exist and prioritise religious children in their criteria but it is farcical for anyone to claim that private school would be the more accessible alternative in monetary terms.

That depends on your income, doesn't it? High earners in London can make over £1000/hour. 2 years of 46 masses per year attendance (to get "full marks" for my nearest school) can be really expensive for such people, if they're not gaining spiritual benefits from the attendance. And none of my acquaintances claim to derive such benefits.

"That depends on your income, doesn't it? High earners in London can make over £1000/hour."

This rate will put the high earner at the top 0.2% of the London pre-tax income bracket. But London has around 10-15% kids go to private school depends on age. So this argument is unsound.

Very few people are earning £1000 an hour on Sunday morning, which is when mass mostly is. And even fewer have BOTH parents earning £1000 on a Sunday morning.

WHS is not diverse. The other London GDSTs may be moreso, particularly the less academic ones.

I think WHS was suggested as having a good number of state school pupils coming into y7 rather than it being particularly diverse.

OP- I don't think you will find what you are looking for but I also don't think it's a major problem in most of the London independents. They are full of bright children who live and travel in London and are usually well aware of the inequalities around them. I don't think most of them are in bubbles - or if they are, they know that's the case. There will be a few Uber wealthy kids but often noone really knows about people's houses etc. They hang out at Nandos, go to the cinema etc. Lots of posh holidays maybe, but DCs ( mine anyway) are not particularly bothered or impressed by that anyway.

I was responding to the assertion that the barriers that the church puts up cannot be more expensive in monetary terms than private school fees. They can. Not for everyone, or most, but they can be more onerous.

Are you willing to work on Sunday mornings for the same average rate as you do during business hours? Most people I know would demand more for that.

Really, from experience it isn’t lost earnings that stops people going to church. There’s usually mass times Saturday evening, Sunday morning and Sunday evening all of which satisfy the attendance criteria. Most children will have at least one parent who can take them to one of these masses. It’s the child’s attendance that counts, not the parents. Sorry for the derail, OP.

Again I’ve heard that KGS is about 50/50 split state/private at year 7 entry.

Absolutely no one has to send their child to private school because they can’t afford to lose the £1000 they’d otherwise be earning between 10 and 11am on a Sunday morning in order to get them into Catholic state school. At the point at which one is making such arguments on the Internet a bit of fresh air is probably advisable.

Have you tried Old Palace (Whitgift Foundation) in Croydon? Academically selective. Ethnically very diverse. Curriculum very broad. The girls come from all over local Croydon schools and areas. (For purposes of transparency I used to work there as a member of support staff.)

But even Old Palace has no state primary intake though, most girls come through the Prep school, about 80% of them, and local prep schools feed girls there too, so state school intake must be what 15% max?

Its worth noting prep fees are around 15K a year and these parents have been paying this each year from reception. That's the majority of the school and Whitgift offer no scholarship or bursary at Prep.

Although ethnically diverse, the Indian and Caribbean or African heritage parents that send their DD's to Old Palace are mostly middle classed from South Croydon, Selsdon, etc, they are finding 20K each year in just fees from Year 7.

Sorry, @socialdilemmawhattodo , I'm not having a pop, but I think its a bit silly for OP to expect social diversity at private school, yes you can have cultural and ethnic mix at any London private schools, especially the single sex ones , but the OP's only hope of finding her perfect school would be a good state school , Coombe Wood , in the same road as Old Palace Prep would tick all the boxes, it has a good mix of rich and ordinary background kids and has great results and its partially selective, but the abscence of fees ensures a real social mix while having high standards as Wallington grammar are behind the academy. In fact OP would be far better aiming soley for grammar schools

"In fact OP would be far better aiming soley for grammar schools"

London grammar won't have the social diversity, FSM% is lowest across the broad, worse then some of the private with bursary provisions.

Ethnic mixed and culture diversity is also worse than most of the private, but that is for another topic.

Agree , for the squeezed middle, top grammar schools are the only hope of a high ranking , Russell Group feeding school , with lots of middle classed kids, and its a bun fight to get a place amongst this group and aspirational working class parents and wealthy parents who like the idea of not spending over six figures over the next few years on fees.

BUT I stick with my first point, a good state school, a free school, great Academy, etc - OP rents so doesn't has to worry about buying in on the expensive doorstep of a good state school, will have that mix. My sister sends her DS to one, prefer not to mention it, but they have streaming and really look after the bright , able kids, the school has partial selection for about 10% of intake and has kids who live in huge houses right down to ones in rented council flats. Nephew flew past his GCSE's and should do the same for his A levels.

@NM12345

I replied to the OP originally as I felt Old Palace met a number of criteria that she listed "academic independent schools that offer a broad intake in terms of means and social class". I was transparent as I do not have female DC and am not able to comment as a parent.

But I am responding to a couple of points that you made on my post as I believe you might have incorrect information or possibly vested interests elsewhere. OP prep was fairly small - approx 30 girls max in Y6. Y7 intake was a maximum of 96 (4 class intake, 24 per class). All the OP prep girls had to pass the public 11+ entrance examination; not all did and not all wanted to apply. So your figure of 80% coming thorough the Prep School is significantly overstated. It was probably closer to 25%. There were plenty of Y7's who came from and were actively supported to apply by their local state primary. Again your assessment of the class background is not accurate for the senior school - yes of course there are many professional families who value the education provided by the school, but there are many girls from local non-professional Croydon backgrounds.

Prep fees are totally irrelevant as OP is looking at 11+ for her DD. The Whitgift offer substantial bursaries and scholarships to all applicants for Y7+ entry (subject to timing, meeting conditions etc).

I don't know how or where from you have obtained your "figures", but I suggest you find a more accurate source.

You mention Coombe Wood - only been open on that site approx 5 years, so probably still some teething issues.

I’ve read some nonsense on Mumsnet over the years but this takes the biscuit. Completely ludicrous.

@socialdilemmawhattodo

Y6 is currently two form,
Entry to Y7 is automatic from Prep, not exam based, girls not up to standard weed out well in advance of the transition.
11+ is only for Old Palace Prep girls who wish to apply for scholarship, not entry to Y7
70 to 80% of Prep moving to senior is stated on school website, and what my friends tell me , you can check yourself.

Besides, the remaining entries must pass entrance exams which places state primary girls at a disadvantage unless they prep externally, as I stated, the destinations of the local prep schools always include Old Palace- preps like Cumnor House Girls, so this reduces the number also.

Whitgift have withdrawn bursaries for Year 7 for 2024
https://www.oldpalace.croydon.sch.uk/admissions/scholarships-and-bursaries/

Which basically means every parent must be able to fund 20K+ a year.

You say - 'Again your assessment of the class background is not accurate for the senior school - yes of course there are many professional families who value the education provided by the school, but there are many girls from local non-professional Croydon backgrounds.'

Someone who works as an electrician or plumber or craftsman is by defintion a non professional, but they can have a huge income.

My defintion was clumsy , I agree, it should have read; 'are mostly wealthy from South Croydon, Selsdon, etc, that can find 20K each year in just fees from Year 7.'

For those girls enterting the school at 11 in 2024, not one will be on bursaries, so if they are from local state primary schools with 'non-professional parents', they must have money.

My point is OP's original question is silly, you can't have a school asking close to the UK national salary each year in fees alone and expect social diversity. I have no agenda , I just don't believe in fantasy.

As for Coombe Wood, its set up by Folio Eduction who run Wallington Grammar , and two highly rated primaries, so I think they know what they are doing. It does satisfy the checklist of OP, who wants high academic standards with social diversity, something that does not exist at private schools, over 90% of any London private school, the parents must have money. Enough money to find 20K+ per child and still have a home, food , bills and clothes

It won't be straightforward to pick such school (based on proportion of intake) but if you want a more down to earth private school, the more academic GDST ones PHS/WHS would be a good bet due to their relatively lower fees. Their locations make the school appealing to working professional parents, contributing to a more diverse mix of families.
KGS is also known to consciously intake state school children.