Giving a fraudulent address for secondary school place

Claireeo · 2023-08-01T18:02:14+00:00

Hi, I just want to hear others experiences or thoughts on this please. My daughter hasn’t been given her 1st choice school. She is 1st on the waiting list. One of the parents has given a false address to be in catchment. I know she has lied as we followed her home on the school run several times. She’s lives further than us to 1st choice school.I have also done a land registry check on the house and it’s still in her name. She has said she split up with her husband and has now moved back all in the space of 6 months. If she has moved back should that address be used? Is it something that should be reported? Also another thing-pan is 270 and they also let some in on appeal. They have told me that the student number is currently 270 but shouldn’t it have gone up due to successful appeals? Any help is appreciated. Many thanks

GeorgeSpeaks · 01/08/2023 19:18

I'm not sure they'd investigate if you mentioned it. Sounds a bit dodgy but could also be genuine. I wouldn't mention it because it's bad enough if this child has lying parents, but would be even worse if their schooling gets messed up. Your child will probably get a place in September.

YallaYallaaa · 01/08/2023 19:29

You followed her home??? That’s not normal.

Original poster

Claireeo · 01/08/2023 19:33

Not followed her home! It’s on my way home and She was in front of me in her car

OP posts:

TeenDivided · 01/08/2023 19:33

Report.
If there is nothing in it, no harm done.

If it is fraud they will be able to remove the place and give it to the child who genuinely qualifies for it - that at the top of the waiting list.

You don't need to be confident, that is up to the LA or whoever to check.

If they let some in at appeal, then some others may have since declined their place eg due to house move, winning their own appeal elsewhere, or going private. They would take the numbers down to PAN before starting to offer from the wait list.

HarrietJet · 01/08/2023 19:35

GeorgeSpeaks · 01/08/2023 19:18

I'm not sure they'd investigate if you mentioned it. Sounds a bit dodgy but could also be genuine. I wouldn't mention it because it's bad enough if this child has lying parents, but would be even worse if their schooling gets messed up. Your child will probably get a place in September.

Of course they'll investigate it.

AngelsWithSilverWings · 01/08/2023 19:40

So do you know for sure that she must have claimed to be living at an address closer to school? There could be another reason why her child is ahead of your's in the admissions priority list.

Original poster

Claireeo · 01/08/2023 19:43

Hopefully the have an obligation to check. I’m probably not their favourite person at the moment as I keep contacting them!

OP posts:

Original poster

Claireeo · 01/08/2023 19:45

AngelsWithSilverWings · 01/08/2023 19:40

So do you know for sure that she must have claimed to be living at an address closer to school? There could be another reason why her child is ahead of your's in the admissions priority list.

Yes I do. I know the address given. I was given details by one of the others mums at school who also doesn’t agree with it

OP posts:

frolp · 01/08/2023 19:48

You won't know if there is another reason why the child has been given a higher priority than yours.

You can let the council know you believe there has been a fraudulent application. They shouldn't let you know the outcome of their investigation.

Personally in your position I would inform the council and then leave it in their hands.

VisionsOfSplendour · 01/08/2023 19:49

GeorgeSpeaks · 01/08/2023 19:18

I'm not sure they'd investigate if you mentioned it. Sounds a bit dodgy but could also be genuine. I wouldn't mention it because it's bad enough if this child has lying parents, but would be even worse if their schooling gets messed up. Your child will probably get a place in September.

In my area they definitely do investigate, when I was a primary governor there was an investigation when the HT found out that an incorrect address has been used.

Why would they ignore a possible breach of the rules, children missed out on first choices every year, what's your basis for saying there will be a place in September?

Are you in England in a place with oversubscribed schools?

ladyvivienne · 01/08/2023 19:51

Your own light doesn't shine brighter from blowing someone else's out.

None of your business.

RandomUsernameHere · 01/08/2023 19:53

Of course it's OP's business, her child didn't get a place so it directly impacts her.
I'd report the suspicion.

cherry2727 · 01/08/2023 19:54

This is why I don't speak to anyone when on the school run! Too many vindictive people around!!! You made it your point of duty to perform a land registry check?? I would laugh if that space was offered to someone ahead of you on the waiting list!

VisionsOfSplendour · 01/08/2023 19:55

ladyvivienne · 01/08/2023 19:51

Your own light doesn't shine brighter from blowing someone else's out.

None of your business.

How is that relevant to the OPs child possibly being deprived of a school place by someone who lied to get ahead of them?

What a strange response to possible fraudulent bahaviour

Original poster

Claireeo · 01/08/2023 20:00

frolp · 01/08/2023 19:48

You won't know if there is another reason why the child has been given a higher priority than yours.

You can let the council know you believe there has been a fraudulent application. They shouldn't let you know the outcome of their investigation.

Personally in your position I would inform the council and then leave it in their hands.

Thank you for your advice. I’ll leave it to them

OP posts:

HarrietJet · 01/08/2023 20:27

ladyvivienne · 01/08/2023 19:51

Your own light doesn't shine brighter from blowing someone else's out.

None of your business.

Your own light doesn't shine brighter from blowing someone else's out
Not a bad motto overall. Totally weird inapt in this particular situation.
It is absolutely op's business if someone obtained a school place by fraudulent means.

Dacadactyl · 01/08/2023 20:30

ladyvivienne · 01/08/2023 19:51

Your own light doesn't shine brighter from blowing someone else's out.

None of your business.

What?!

If this other woman has lied, OP should report it.

If she's lied, she's disgusting.

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllanty · 01/08/2023 20:31

See it say it sorted.

Hoppinggreen · 01/08/2023 20:34

ladyvivienne · 01/08/2023 19:51

Your own light doesn't shine brighter from blowing someone else's out.

None of your business.

No but she might get the place if she’s no 1 on the list and the other child loses their space.

MargaretThursday · 01/08/2023 20:46

I'd assumed followed home means happened to be going in the same direction rather than a deliberate action.

She may have a reason (looking after child/disability/social reasons etc) why her child is higher priority, or it's possible that after school they always go to visit grandma or something.
However if she does, they'll just investigate, conclude that it's not fraudulent and nothing will happen.

It's also possible that if Op doesn't report that someone else will during the first term, and the child could find that they're pulled out of the school after settling in, which could be far worse.

OP report it. It's not a victimless crime, and the more often people get away with it then more people are encouraged to try. You may not get the space anyway because if someone else joins the waiting list that is above you they'll be offered it.

ladyvivienne · 01/08/2023 21:01

Well it just seems to me convenient that she's made it her mission to work out who's allegedly denying her child the place.

Personally, I feel things happen for a reason. If the daughter was meant to get a place, she'll get one. It shouldn't take stalking people, gossiping, making assumptions and ultimately reporting to get a place at the right school. Could be a whole host of reasons why she got a place and her daughter didn't.

She also said' I"m not their favourite person as I keep contacting them"

What on earth about?

If OP had been in catchment properly herself, she presumable wouldn't be in this predicament anyway.

On reflection though, after reading other's comments, she's got nothing to lose by reporting it - other than possibly wasting people's time and potentially ruining the other child's chance of an education at this school (presume it must be a great comp?) So yes, report.

Original poster

Claireeo · 01/08/2023 21:01

MargaretThursday · 01/08/2023 20:46

I'd assumed followed home means happened to be going in the same direction rather than a deliberate action.

She may have a reason (looking after child/disability/social reasons etc) why her child is higher priority, or it's possible that after school they always go to visit grandma or something.
However if she does, they'll just investigate, conclude that it's not fraudulent and nothing will happen.

It's also possible that if Op doesn't report that someone else will during the first term, and the child could find that they're pulled out of the school after settling in, which could be far worse.

OP report it. It's not a victimless crime, and the more often people get away with it then more people are encouraged to try. You may not get the space anyway because if someone else joins the waiting list that is above you they'll be offered it.

Yes didn’t follow her to her home. Is just on the same route.
i agree that there may be another reason. I’m only going on the fact she told me she had moved.
Ive been putting it off but I just find it very unfair when I have been honest. Plus my dd has been offered a school that needs improvement when the 1st choice is good.

OP posts:

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 01/08/2023 21:03

How do you know that the other child doesn't have any other reason to be higher priority than yours?

What does your LA say about moving house after application submission deadline date? (Ours just works on your address then).

Original poster

Claireeo · 01/08/2023 21:13

ladyvivienne · 01/08/2023 21:01

Well it just seems to me convenient that she's made it her mission to work out who's allegedly denying her child the place.

Personally, I feel things happen for a reason. If the daughter was meant to get a place, she'll get one. It shouldn't take stalking people, gossiping, making assumptions and ultimately reporting to get a place at the right school. Could be a whole host of reasons why she got a place and her daughter didn't.

She also said' I"m not their favourite person as I keep contacting them"

What on earth about?

If OP had been in catchment properly herself, she presumable wouldn't be in this predicament anyway.

On reflection though, after reading other's comments, she's got nothing to lose by reporting it - other than possibly wasting people's time and potentially ruining the other child's chance of an education at this school (presume it must be a great comp?) So yes, report.

I just believe that people should be honest. I usually avoid gossip and the school run as I work full time. Other mums just felt the need to tell me and then I was suspicious hence my own checks to confirm.I contact them everyday to find out her position on the waiting list. Our catchments are strange as we are on the english welsh border so closest school is actually in a different country.If it was your child’s future versus another’s wouldn’t you put them first? Yes it is a great comprehensive

OP posts:

NerrSnerr · 01/08/2023 21:16

How does the other mum know what address she put on her form?