Giving a fraudulent address for secondary school place

[Claireeo]

Hi, I just want to hear others experiences or thoughts on this please.
My daughter hasn’t been given her 1st choice school. She is 1st on the waiting list. One of the parents has given a false address to be in catchment. I know she has lied as we followed her home on the school run several times. She’s lives further than us to 1st choice school.I have also done a land registry check on the house and it’s still in her name. She has said she split up with her husband and has now moved back all in the space of 6 months. If she has moved back should that address be used? Is it something that should be reported? Also another thing-pan is 270 and they also let some in on appeal. They have told me that the student number is currently 270 but shouldn’t it have gone up due to successful appeals? Any help is appreciated. Many thanks

Yes this is correct. At least someone understands what I mean

Just because you live closer than the address you believe she has given, doesn’t mean that’s what got the child’s place before your child.

Have you looked at the schools over subscription criteria? It could be anything like a family member works for The Academy, siblings already in the school. Catchment isn’t as important a criteria as people think.

She also likely won’t be the only person who’s got something over your child than catchment area to rank them higher on the over subscription criteria. Children could live out of the catchment area but if they are in care they will be placed 1st and there are rules that children in care should only be applying for schools with the two top OFSTED ratings where possible.

you could complain but doesn’t mean she will lose her place, also if someone joins the waitlist with your Daughter they will also be ranked on the over subscription criteria and your Daughters ranking could go down.

Just being behind her doesn't mean you know where she was going, or why. How do you know where she went if you had arrived at your house first?

Did you follow her?

Thanks to everyone who gave unbiased advice and asked genuine questions.Also thanks to the others who clearly have too much time on their hands and their full time vocation is to be an internet troll. I just wanted some advice based on what I thought could be fraud. I may be right but I may be wrong and could never be sure. I have decided not to inform the LA about it as I don’t want to be responsible for another child losing their place. I have spoken to many of the children’s parents who live in catchment and have since learned that some have had some checks done eg council tax. So I will have to trust the system

here is an example of an over subscription criteria for a local secondary school to me. See how catchment actually isn’t one of the first things listed.

if you’ve got just catchment you are not one of the first to get assigned to the school.

You are right, JackMummy. There were people here who were mentioning such oversubscribed schools that most of the kids who got in were the ones who had a sibling and EHCP statement and hardly any places were left for those without an older siblings.

I know someone who rented a house ( but didn't live there ) for 6 months in catchment so they could get their child into a particular school.
Somehow they got found out and the school place was withdrawn.

I've just seen your update, but if you do have reasonable suspicion I would still mention it to the LA.

School place fraud isn't victimless and if a child has fraudulently got a place that means another child has lost their rightful place at the school.

You're not being judge and jury by mentioning it to the LA. Like others have said, it might be an honest application and rightfully allocated place, in which case nothing will happen. If they have made a fraudulent application then you raising it might ensure the rightful child gets their place.

Just leave it alone, this is so ridiculously petty

The number of LAC / High Needs will be small (and parents are likely (though not definite) to be aware of LAC/Adopted children or children with High Needs in their child's primary class anyway).
If a child has got in under one of those categories then if a query is raised the LA will see that, shrug their shoulders and say it's OK.

Letting a child whose parents have got the place fraudulently stay still means a child has lost their place - the one at the top of the list come 1st September. It isn't a 'victimless' action.

As a matter of interest, would you feel the same if it was your child who missed out on a place and therefore had to travel further / go to a less desirable school?

Completely agree TeenDivided.

School place fraud isn't a victimless action.

It always amazes me how many people on here seem to think pointy elbows, buying/renting in catchment to fraudulently claim a place, and trying to exaggerate/fabricate reasons for appeal on here is considered acceptable behaviour and something everyone should turn a blind eye to.

If this application is honest and valid, nothing will happen.
If it's fraudulent then another child can be given their rightful place.

I would report her. Why should your child miss out because of these lying chancers.

Can I just say, I know you have updated that you won't get in touch with LA. If this were my child I'd want the reassurance to know I've done as much as I can to get them into the school. You only get one chance normally and I wouldn't rely on the LA doing their due diligence council tax etc checks on everyone, no black mark will be put against you if it turns out they have a valid place, if you feel this maybe you could write an ANONYMOUS letter to the LA they are sure to check them and no one knows it was you alerting them.

That's why I said don't do it unless you are sure. The OP doesn't seem to know anything, she's followed this family home as they go the same way but that doesn't prove anything, as I said I had to go back to my old home several times after we split up as I needed to pick things up or the kids were looking for stuff they might have left behind. Maybe the person who reported me saw me going into my old house felt that justified them making false allegations.

I wonder if people would be so keen to report if they had to pay for the investigation if their allegation wasn't proved. I suspect the amount of council time wasted would drop drastically.

So how do you know where she was going?

@Iwasafool the OP doesn't for sure but has reasonable grounds to suspect fraud. Her child got given an undesirable high school.

I wonder if people would be so keen to report if they had to pay for the investigation if their allegation wasn't proved. I suspect the amount of council time wasted would drop drastically
It might lead to more robust checks at the point of application, which would be a good thing in my eyes.

The idea of don't say anything only benefits sharp elbowed parents who want to play the game and fraudulently get their children into the right schools.

It always amazes me on Mumsnet that people tie themselves in knots having a go at parents who say "our local schools aren't great so we are paying independent" whilst also having zero issue about people paying eye watering house prices to move into catchment, play the property buying and moving game, orchestrate splits that conveniently get children in a house close to school with one parent, and fraudulently try to access school places. In those situations any suspicions of school fraud is met with "but you don't know... Unless you're certain don't say anything... It's none of your business".

It's everyone's business if school place fraud happens. It's not a victimless action and each time a parent fraudulently gets their child into a school another child with honest parents misses out on their rightful place.

Why would you think that is a fraud to buy a house in the catchment of a particular school? Realistically, this is what drives the property market. If only they move within the timescales that school accepts then there is nothing fraudulent about it.
When I was looking for a house, and that was 10 years ago, I made sure I am close to the good schools. Yes, it may change but with some schools the performance stays at the same great level

@TheShorestAnswerIsDoing It isn't fraud to sell your home, and buy a new one in catchment.

It is fraud (ie against admissions rules) to e.g. buy a small 2 bed in catchment and live there / claim to live there whilst still owning your 4 bed house 3 miles away out of catchment intending to move back a week after allocation day or a week after new term starts.

Similarly renting somewhere whilst owning a home nearby is also against the rules.

Why would you think that is a fraud to buy a house in the catchment of a particular school? Realistically, this is what drives the property market. If only they move within the timescales that school accepts then there is nothing fraudulent about it.
When I was looking for a house, and that was 10 years ago, I made sure I am close to the good schools. Yes, it may change but with some schools the performance stays at the same great level

I don't think it's fraud to buy a house in catchment.

It was just an observation that on here the fashionable thing to do is to kick one group of parents whilst being absolutely fine with a whole host of other things that equally involve pushing for a decent school, anything from buying in catchment (which is understandable, but falls down when people claim they're against families buying a leg up) through to school place fraud (where people seem to say turning a blind eye is fine).

I find it depressing how many people tell an OP who has grounds to think a family have committed school place fraud are told to mind her own business.

@TheShorestAnswerIsDoing It isn't fraud to sell your home, and buy a new one in catchment.

It is fraud (ie against admissions rules) to e.g. buy a small 2 bed in catchment and live there / claim to live there whilst still owning your 4 bed house 3 miles away out of catchment intending to move back a week after allocation day or a week after new term starts.

Similarly renting somewhere whilst owning a home nearby is also against the rules.

This.

It's not fraud to move into catchment for a good school when you're planning a house move.

It is fraud to buy properties in the right area for the purposes of admissions and then move back to your non-catchment house.

For some reason a lot of mumsnetters see no issue with the second category and think everyone should keep their nose out.

You can own two houses and it still not a fraud. If you let a house then somebody else who you let the house to pays council tax. And remember the many cases of equal shared custody of kids. Parents decide where the kids will go to school and have a choice to declare one of two houses. It is a complicated world.

People also do not necessarily live all the time in one house of they have two. I know somebody who has a flat in London and house in Surrey. None of those are holiday houses.

If someone owns two properties and doesn't commit school fraud then it won't be picked up as fraud.

If people are buying and renting properties and it to commit school place fraud then it is right that it is identified and challenged so that school places can be allocated to the right children.

The only people who don't want school place fraud investigated are the people who benefit from committing fraud because all the honest people holding rightful places don't need to worry.

>It is fraud to buy properties in the right area for the purposes of admissions and then move back to your non-catchment house.

And how do you prove it? You can't. It is the school policy that states requirement tenure of rent.
With house purchase it is an issue because, what they kick a child in year 8 out because parents separated and sold the house? You cannot prove it. Again, it is complicated world