Could any child get into SW London Grammars with tutoring?

[GeorgeSpeaks]

My child recently got a place at a grammar school in SW London. I'm very proud of her and she worked hard to pass the exams when none of her friends were sitting them

The thing that pisses me off is that when I tell people which school she has been allocated (I only mention when asked) they always ask if she's been tutored. One even went as far as saying she hadn't put her kid in for the exam but they would have passed if she had.

Do any kids get places without tutoring? Our primary is a state and achieves below average results compared to others in the local authority. The tutoring was an hour a week plus a few past papers in the run up to the exam.

Am I wrong to feel pissed off at this attitude? I'm probably being over sensitive!

I agree that the grammar school entry test it is about speed and accuracy and the knowledge of year 6 too.

For independent schools, it is more complex. Non-verbal reasoning doesn't exist in the state primary program and verbal reasoning has some aspects that are also beyond the program: the letter sequences, and some aspects of math.

If you read the abstract it says this..."Skeptics of single-sex schooling have suggested that such schooling may increase students’ gender salience (awareness of gender in categorizations), reduce opportunities for mixed-gender interactions, and increase mixed-gender anxiety, but little evidence has been found."

Which was my point.. this is one study. I bet if I could be bothered I could find evidence that this is true of some children in mixed sex school.

It is one study and it is correlational and you can't infer cause here.

I wouldn't think be much in it, personally. the average grammar is harder to get onto than the average private school, but a really elite (e.g. top ten) private school is harder to get into than an average grammar, certainly... I can't think there'd be much difference between a top ten private school and a top ten SS grammar. the tests and passmarks are quite different.

I put the link above to many studies. This widely studied subject. Pick more suitable studies.

Ages ago my sister attended only girls' school. It impacted her and most of the girls at her school. Shy around the boys.
I was attending 95% girls class- it wasn't a healthy balance
Of course, it all depends if they have male siblings and if the school has close relations with the opposite-sex school

But for me, this is a major issue with many private and grammar schools. School is not only about educational achievement but about a lot more. The social aspect is one of those. I find the single-sex schooling something very antiquated and vastly abandoned by many countries

@LondonMum20222 no DD is going to private, why would one choose a school simply because level of difficulty?

I personally like single sex less. The fact that there are almost no new single sex schools opening (Islamic schools a possible exception) and almost no co-ed schools moving to single sex suggests that I'm in a majority. But the persistent popularity of a modest number of single sex schools shows that plenty of people disagree.

"elite (e.g. top ten) private school is harder to get into" - it is just perception or false economy, if you judge by applicant to offer ratios.

@RedFluffyPanda

I think a lot of parents that had their kids applied grammar simply didn't even think about private options (economy is one of the consideration) . If similar focus effort is taken they will excel in those top private school entrance exams, and the intake (without financial consideration) for those elite schools will be very different vs now.

Those were studies into academic attainment and difference between single sex schools - which there have been many studies.

But the area you were talking about - very few studies have been done - as it said in the abstract of that study you shared. And again the research is correlational so we are unable to infer cause - other factors could be involved as you have said should as family life etc.

"SPGS maths paper isn't hard." Funniest (or just most absurd) statement I've ever read on here. "

It is just because some mum hasn't been through the 11+ process yet

not sure who you are quoting

Apologise @RedFluffyPanda
It is @puffyisgood

@Ladybowes

My take on is that the school should prepare for life in the real world where there is more than one sex. Man, woman and all not binary propositions should not live in the society separately and every step they should work together.
And even if the girls would perform superb in only female schools. Boys in only boys would get best grades - for me ( my personal opinion if I may) this is very backwards system. Children are forced to grow up with limited social interactions with opposite sex. Weird and not healthy ( my humble opinion, and I do appreciate and respect the fact you have a different approach as you have absolute right to have it)

Some of those who completed boys only schools speak here:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-better-to-educate-boys-and-girls-in-separate-single-sex-schools-or-in-mixed-coeducational-schools

@RedFluffyPanda I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on this - however, the evidence is limited and many parents like single sex schools and who are we to tell them how to educate their children?

If you start down that route - then maybe we should get rid of all private schools, grammar schools and faith schools (something I would be happy to do as it happens!).

DD picked a single sex school following mixed sex primary. By the end of primary she was absolutely desperate to go to a girls' school. She has no difficulty in talking to boys, she just prefers not having them in school with her.

@Ladybowes Basing on what did you get to the conclusion that my intention is " tell parents what to do" or close some types of schools?
Isn't it black on white already stated in an apologetic tone that it is my and only my opinion and you as anybody else have the right to believe differently?

I don't like any single-sex schools regardless if it is religious, grammar or private schools. But as I said and repeat again just in case somebody still didn't read it: this is my opinion and I respect that people have different ways of looking at it. Free choice

I have no problems with the existence of private or faith schools.

😂😂😂

@RedFluffyPanda true I did infer that from your comments.

Did feel like you were trying to persuade others of your view - given the evidence you attempted to share. (and there is nothing wrong with that I might add!)

I do have a problem with private and faith schools and if the majority voted to abolish them I would be more than happy. But at the moment we have what we have.

I stated it just below somebody else stating that doesn't like the elitism of grammar schools.

I am not trying you or anybody else to persuade anything. Stating is not persuading.

You have the right to believe that there is a need of abolishing private or faith schools. I personally believe in choice as long as it is not damaging the development of the kids. The only schools I am not sure about are Steiner primary and secondary schools. Nurseries are ok.

@RedFluffyPanda Reading things can come across differently sometimes - my interpretation was that you were trying to persuade people. I take your word that was not your intention.

I am all for persuading people and I am open to be persuaded to other views I not considered before.

You already once above said that it was your interpretation. I am beginning to interpret from your repetition that you are trying to convince me to persuade you to single-sex school. Sorry I am too lazy for such debates and it is not the subject of the topic.

@RedFluffyPanda fair enough but you have gone off topic too.

yes we did:)

@Ladybowes

I do have a problem with private and faith schools and if the majority voted to abolish them I would be more than happy.

And continuing red herring :)) I find it absolutely fascinating that most of catholic schools have superb results and many are marked by Ofsted as outstanding. Why Catholic and not... English Church or Muslim or French or German schools in UK? Does the type of faith stimulates results and why would that have an impact... I wonder...

Why Catholic and not... English Church or Muslim or French or German schools in UK?

Because Catholic schools have a very specific set of hoops to jump through in terms of when your child is baptised and how much church attendance you have. Only highly motivated parents with the ability to find out these things and put them into practice while the child is still very young will get places for their children. Highly motivated parents with an interest in education are a very good predictor for children who do well academically.

@RedFluffyPanda in addition to social selective, some over subscribed Catholic school are academic selected.

Social selective schools outperform normal state school is not just limited to catholic schools,, you can see high perform school in Jewish schools, non selected state school near affluent areas (catchment).

Secondary school performance has high correlation and reflectof certain demographic pre filter of the admission criteria which is pretty simar to Grammar or private schools in someway, but it is based on other means.