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Secondary education

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Original poster

School has a very strong case

163 replies

Hye000 · 02/05/2023 16:10

As the title says… we have just received the school case against anymore pupils being admitted and it appears they have a strong case. Any tips or ideas of arguments to put forward to weaken their argument not to admit further…

to be honest, i appreciate the argument they have but I’m not asking them to admit anymore than one child so to me it’s hard to read it as being stronger than my argument for my child.

they were originally admitting 252 and have increased pan to 280. They say that they have 10 forms of 28 students and all classrooms are at full capacity, SEN areas and provisions are stretched and financially they are stretched etc etc.

can I argue that the receive extra funding for SEN pupils and that this should cover those children and the one 2 one teaching that is required?? I don’t know what else I can argue as I’m more conscious of the impact the my child if they were not to be admitted. They also argue about the narrow road that the school is on and that more people coming would add to health and safety, but my child would be walking so can I add that in to my speech, I don’t know.. feel like I’m clutching at straws!

any ideas please please please?

OP posts:
Original poster
Hye000 · 02/05/2023 16:11

Just to add, we applied on medical and social grounds. They marked it as a ‘No’ in the medical criteria even though she does have medical and social needs that diagnosed so this is a matter of their opinion, in the admission list of how the 280 pupils are placed, non were admitted for this year under medical and social criteria.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hye000 · 02/05/2023 16:12

Could I ask them point blank how or why they feel my child’s case does not come under that criteria or what would??

OP posts:
Sallycantwaitnoel · 02/05/2023 16:40

Why 28 and not the standard 30?

SE13Mummy · 02/05/2023 16:48

When applying, did you provide supporting evidence (from a medical professional)
of your DD's need for that specific school or did you just tick the box?

The children I know of who have been allocated a secondary school on medical grounds tend to be those with mobility issues that would be unable to travel between one of the split site schools independently (due to the steep hill), are having ongoing, likely long-term medical treatment at the hospital very near X school so attending that school would maximise their time in school.

PatriciaHolm · 02/05/2023 16:57

Hye000 · 02/05/2023 16:12

Could I ask them point blank how or why they feel my child’s case does not come under that criteria or what would??

You can ask them who took the decision and how they came to it -they are unlikely to tell you any specifics about what would as they are taken on a case by case basis and don't set a precedent.

In terms of the PAN, have they officially increased it or taken more this year as a one-off?

If you can upload the case as photos (removing personal information) it will be easier to advise.

Sirzy · 02/05/2023 17:00

can I argue that the receive extra funding for SEN pupils and that this should cover those children and the one 2 one teaching that is required the funding recieved will be highly unlikely to come near the cost of operating the support.

is your argument that they didn’t process your application correctly when it comes to the social and medical needs?

Original poster
Hye000 · 02/05/2023 17:35

They may not be in order but page number starts from 5 onwards

OP posts:
Original poster
Hye000 · 02/05/2023 17:38

@Sirzy yes that is my first argument as well as the detriment to her if she were not to be admitted

OP posts:
MargaretThursday · 02/05/2023 17:38

Medical and social grounds ime is a really high bar to be accepted in to. I've known a few who I'd have thought easily met it, and all have been told they didn't qualify.

JamHam · 02/05/2023 17:43

Do you have a back up school OP?

Original poster
Hye000 · 02/05/2023 17:52

Sallycantwaitnoel · 02/05/2023 16:40

Why 28 and not the standard 30?

According to the paperwork that’s the max capacity for the classrooms but originally it was lower so I don’t know

OP posts:
Sirzy · 02/05/2023 17:54

What are you arguing that this school can offer that no other can?

TeenDivided · 02/05/2023 18:07

can I argue that the receive extra funding for SEN pupils and that this should cover those children and the one 2 one teaching that is required??

I'm not convinced that would hold water. Some children have SEN and need extra support even if they don't have an EHCP. The ones that do have EHCPs may or may not actually come with extra funding.

Original poster
Hye000 · 02/05/2023 18:07

@PatriciaHolm is it worth raising that the school have said that non of the 280 places have been turned down but I am aware that from my daughters year alone there are at least 4 kids who will be attending independent schools that are definitely not going to require a place but those schools have not informed the local authority yet so they may not need to go over PAN to admit my child

OP posts:
Original poster
Hye000 · 02/05/2023 18:08

TeenDivided · 02/05/2023 18:07

can I argue that the receive extra funding for SEN pupils and that this should cover those children and the one 2 one teaching that is required??

I'm not convinced that would hold water. Some children have SEN and need extra support even if they don't have an EHCP. The ones that do have EHCPs may or may not actually come with extra funding.

I thought all children with EHCP get extra funding??

OP posts:
Sirzy · 02/05/2023 18:10

Hye000 · 02/05/2023 18:08

I thought all children with EHCP get extra funding??

Show quote history

Nope and when they do it is rarely enough to cover the whole cost of the package needed.

FawnFrenchieMum · 02/05/2023 18:12

Hye000 · 02/05/2023 18:07

@PatriciaHolm is it worth raising that the school have said that non of the 280 places have been turned down but I am aware that from my daughters year alone there are at least 4 kids who will be attending independent schools that are definitely not going to require a place but those schools have not informed the local authority yet so they may not need to go over PAN to admit my child

You can’t expect them to accept your word that some children are not taking up places. They will go down the waiting list as places are declined. It’s up to the parents to decline the place not the independent schools.

TeenDivided · 02/05/2023 18:16

Let's hope your medical & social needs are compelling

WheresTheForum · 02/05/2023 18:20

What is the reason you feel this school offers something the others can’t. If you can explain this it might help.

PatriciaHolm · 02/05/2023 18:22

Hye000 · 02/05/2023 18:07

@PatriciaHolm is it worth raising that the school have said that non of the 280 places have been turned down but I am aware that from my daughters year alone there are at least 4 kids who will be attending independent schools that are definitely not going to require a place but those schools have not informed the local authority yet so they may not need to go over PAN to admit my child

The panel can't take this into consideration - it's hearsay, and may not happen if circumstances change. Panels have to assume appeals take the school over PAN.

In terms of the case, have they laid out room sizes? I would also ask what their current year sizes are in all years to see if they are coping with over PAN in any other year. It's a pretty standard case TBH.

redskylight · 02/05/2023 18:26

Hye000 · 02/05/2023 18:07

@PatriciaHolm is it worth raising that the school have said that non of the 280 places have been turned down but I am aware that from my daughters year alone there are at least 4 kids who will be attending independent schools that are definitely not going to require a place but those schools have not informed the local authority yet so they may not need to go over PAN to admit my child

Unless they don't have a waiting list (in which case your child would get one of those 4 places anyway), this doesn't help as they will just take another 4 children from the waiting list, so they will still be up to 280. Plus they may have children who weren't allocated originally/people moving into the area etc.

I'm not sure how your child walking to school negates the health and safety point. He would still be an extra body in a small area.

Does the school offer anything else you could use in your appeal? Why do you think it meets your child's social/medical needs best.

Itsanotherhreatday · 02/05/2023 18:34

You appear intent on telling the school how to do their job.

What you need to focus on is why this school is more suitable to your child and their needs than any other school.

Hugasauras · 02/05/2023 18:37

Instead of trying to weaken their argument, strengthen yours. Why this school? What unique care does it offer your DC? What is the impact on your DC if they have to attend elsewhere?

Spendonsend · 02/05/2023 18:38

I think you need to focus on your medical social grounds and why they havent considered your application evidence properly or why they decided it didnt apply.

TeenDivided · 02/05/2023 18:39

Itsanotherhreatday · 02/05/2023 18:34

You appear intent on telling the school how to do their job.

What you need to focus on is why this school is more suitable to your child and their needs than any other school.

There are 2 parts to an appeal. Knocking the school's case and building up your own.
The OP is asking for advice on the former.

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