School has a very strong case

[Hye000]

As the title says… we have just received the school case against anymore pupils being admitted and it appears they have a strong case. Any tips or ideas of arguments to put forward to weaken their argument not to admit further…

to be honest, i appreciate the argument they have but I’m not asking them to admit anymore than one child so to me it’s hard to read it as being stronger than my argument for my child.

they were originally admitting 252 and have increased pan to 280. They say that they have 10 forms of 28 students and all classrooms are at full capacity, SEN areas and provisions are stretched and financially they are stretched etc etc.

can I argue that the receive extra funding for SEN pupils and that this should cover those children and the one 2 one teaching that is required?? I don’t know what else I can argue as I’m more conscious of the impact the my child if they were not to be admitted. They also argue about the narrow road that the school is on and that more people coming would add to health and safety, but my child would be walking so can I add that in to my speech, I don’t know.. feel like I’m clutching at straws!

any ideas please please please?

???

but if you put another child in, then that is 3 children sharing 2 places, and so disadvantaging 10% of the class every single lesson, every single day, every single term.... so every single pupil suffering one lesson in 10, so two or three times a week. And that is just table space, before you get to resources. I dont get why people dont see how detrimental it is to everyone to admit over pan - it is not victimless.

To me it is weird that the capacity of the classes is only 28. I would ask what is the floor area of the classes as area guidelines says fir 30 students the class should be 55 Sqm

This is wrong. If OP can convince the appeal panel that the school can go over PAN, they will admit based on the strongest cases. They will not look at the waiting list. And OP does need to argue about PAN even if there has been a mistake. Whilst a mistake is a very strong case and in most cases will win an appeal, it is not guaranteed to do so. If the school really cannot handle any more pupils, you won't get in even if there has been a mistake.

Very interesting point. I appreciate this as I was baffled that they had a new building with very modern open plan areas, they have classrooms that have walls that pull back like a folding door to make two rooms into one or vice versa so I find it weird that they made the rooms for 28pupils. I will ask during the appeal as I doubt I will get this info if I call and ask

So many people determinedly offering incorrect advice on this thread.

The panel has to decide whether OP's case outweighs the school's case. She should therefore present the strongest case she can (which she has discussed on another thread) as well as doing everything she can to weaken their case. An appellant weakening the school's case can make the difference between winning and losing.

@Wolfiefan The Government advises that parents are seeking to establish that the reasons their DC should be admitted outweigh the school’s reasons for not admitting. Clearly the reasons to admit must be paramount but you also need to ask questions about the school’s decision. This is perfectly normal and why the Presenting Officer is present. To answer questions about the school’s submission.

Also if an appeal is won, the school must admit. Waiting list waits until after appeals are determined.

No, it isn't. Not at all. It is a pretty standard case.

Are you here to give me advice or make me feel bad for fighting for my child??

This is why an appeal panel will generally decide there is some prejudice to the school through admitting an additional pupil. They will then look at whether the prejudice to the pupil from not being admitted outweighs this.

A lot of us appealing are not doing so lightly or because we want to get our children into the “best” school. Many of us honestly fear the detriment of our children’s future. For reasons I don’t want to go into on this thread, I am concerned that my son will end up with emotional school avoidance if he doesn’t go to preferred school, which will impact his life and also the lives of his sisters who would suffer from all the issues for the household that go alongside that. It is also a lot of hard work to appeal and causes a good deal of anxiety, but we feel our children’s well-being depends on it.

Much love and appreciation. This thread has invited some toxic people who clearly couldn’t possibly understand that this isn’t an ‘easy’ option for us as parents. I have lived and breathed this appeal process and spend every waking minute thinking about it because I am so worried about the implications of the appeal being unsuccessful!

I’ve got everything crossed for you @Hye000 as a parent going through it myself I know how hard it is and it’s not something you take on lightly. I’m sure there’ll be parents who turn up on the day without much prep just because they want their children to go to that school, but from the amount of effort I see you putting into your case, I can tell how important this is to you and your child.

Having now read your other thread, I'm shocked that they haven't taken her medical needs into account. It's a very specific thing you're dealing with. And as you say, OP, not every condition should require an EHCP, although it does sound like it might be worth getting one for her for the future. Best of luck with the appeal.

@SuperSue77 you too!! Do you have a date for your appeal? I’m on edge and I’m trying to pull out everything I can because I really don’t know what we will do or what will happen to my daughter if this appeal isn’t upheld. I can see a future of hospital admissions on the horizon. I’m so worried and I want to remain composed for the appeal but it’s such an emotional time as you know when you have a child who NEEDS this so badly.

@Inkpotlover thank you for taking the time to read my other thread. As you can see, it’s far too long to go into on every thread. There is so much more to my DD story, far more than I can write down! I feel the same with regards to the EHCP but I think because up until now she hasn’t had much problems academically, that’s seems to be the biggest focus for EHCP and not looking at her medical need and how if it is affected, it can then affect her education. If she were to be hospitalised, requiring a peg feeding tube, then her education would be affecting so much so but I don’t want them to wait until things get that bad, all I want is help to prevent or reduce the chances.

If they’re going taking 28 kids per class look at the room sizes. You should have been provided with a plan of the school showing class room measurements. Google minimum square foot for (primary/whatever) schools and see if they literally have floor space for more kids.

@TwoPointFourCatsAndDogs they have not provided any plans of the school or classroom sizes. Only stated that the rooms are only big enough for 28pupils (conveniently the exact amount they have already)

@prh47bridge should the school have provided a plan of the layout of the school or proof of classroom sizes as they are stating that the classes can’t take anymore than 28, who is to say this is true without them provided myself and the panel any proof of that?

It isn't compulsory. Since the school's case is no longer attached to your post, I can't see what they've said on sizes. If they have stated sizes, the appeal panel will accept that without further proof. If they haven't, it weakens their argument a little.

@prh47bridge i had to remove photos as I had left the name in on one, the school does not state the classroom measurements, only states that the classes hold up to 28 students which is conveniently the exact amount of pupils per form (10 forms of 28= 280 PAN). No measurements nor diagrams of the classes

@prh47bridge they argue all the way through that everything in the school was designed for 28 students per class but then they go on to say that the school was only built originally to house 245 per year group but this number doesn’t divide into 28 so that’s really contradictory.

Why do people who evidently have no knowledge of the appeals code or how the appeals system works rush onto these threads to hand out terrible ‘advice’?

Oh sodding hell. Yes it's late and I have had wine, but, people - if you don't know about the appeals process, please stop dogmatically stating things. This is absolutely incorrect, as are a number of other posts.

OP should, absolutely, be looking to undermine the schools case that it cannot cope with even one more pupil. As panelists we know there is likely to be some prejudice to taking another pupil, but schools often over egg the pudding in terms of the implications and a good appeals case will often reveal that .

Someone needs to ask them about classroom sizes. It doesn't need exact measurements, just the area. That will tell us how many pupils they can accommodate.