With Oxbridge taking less and less private school students, is it still worth it??

[SillySmart]

stats shows that the number of private educated students Oxbridge enrolled has dropped 1/3 in the past 5 years. Any thoughts?

I sent my ds to an independent because they support him in his subject - maths - when he's ahead of the rest of the class, so he doesn't get frustrated.
Also for small class sizes, less bullying, fewer disruptive pupils, better pastoral care.
If he wants to go to university, he'll apply to the best institution related to the engineering course he wants to take. Whether that is Oxbridge or not doesn't really matter.

@Meadowfinch Thank you. How refreshing to read a post from someone who is not full of inverted snobbery

I think there was an article in the Times last weekend that suggested discrimination against white, privately educated boys in the selection process at Cambridge. Didn't read it but saw the headline. I have no idea if that is true but guessing that in the longer term it will be for the benefit of other institutions if it exists.

Er, if you're paying because you think your DC will get a place at Oxbridge you're going to be disappointed!

Yup, I've heard that too.

Charlemagne38 - I am with you on this although fairly relaxed about it as it does not really matter. I support the US Supreme Court which in a wonderful recent judgment which is leading to a huge change for fairness in the US held these types of programmes can be unequal and illegal. if James gets in beacuse he is black and Jane is rejected because she is white that is racism both in the US but also in the UK under the Equality Act 2010 so hopefully we can move to a position of equality and fairness i.e. in my view pure exam grade results.

@Xenia
The problem with pure exam grades is that it’s never a level playing field.

The problem with pure exam grades is that it’s never a level playing field.”

No admissions tutor can second guess or be in control. Private school is a silly marker. People can send children to local not up to scratch schools and have phds and home tutor or pay a tutor etc. There is now so much free information online too.

I also don’t understand why people keep asking about Oxbridge. Oxbridge is yesterday’s news since top employers went uni blind nobody cares.

The real question for private school parents is whether it is harder to get onto competitive courses like computer science or Medicine or Economics etc at all Russell Group unis. Look at the stats and make up your own mind.

Also you can always game the system, apply for Classics or MML or Theology at Oxbridge and then change to Law once you are in. People were doing this 20 years ago. It isn’t new news.

My mate did that. Got in for ASNAC (very niche) changed to SPS.

In a way will Durham etc. be more akin to Oxbridge as Oxbridge widens participation and becomes competitive to an extent many many suitable candidates will be embarrassingly because of numbers? An Oxbridge reject high flyer is still a high flyer and I think employers and society recognise this.

We know Durham is a good university, as well as Imperial, UCL etc. Take a random sample of students from such unis and compare to Oxbridge and I am guessing that there isn't much difference in reality.

40 years ago if you were reasonably academic and privately educated an Oxbridge snub may have felt like a real slight but now I think privately educated pupils know Oxbridge isn't guaranteed (if it ever was) and are less aggrieved at rejection knowing their life chances aren't in reality going to be impacted significantly.

I think it's still worth the private route if it gets the grades to get into popular courses regardless of uni.

@Intergalacticcatharsis These days it is considerably harder to change from (say) ASNC to (say) Law than it was in the past. No longer to be recommended as an easy shoe in!

@Charlemagne38 - Cambridge still has the Tripos system so can’t the rich private school students do part II of some more competitive courses? If they are willing to do 4 years?

@mids2019 I think the alternative will be extremely selective liberal arts colleges and universities in the US. Many offer need blind admission and impressive financial aid to international students.

@Intergalacticcatharsis In theory yes ( my sister did it years ago) but, according to my ( completely knowledgeable ) source, the departments are very often unwilling to allow it these days, despite what they write in the prospectus. Apparently it’s difficult to move from a small department to a large one, such as Law.

It's probably the best playing field available all the same.

The best way to ensure a level playing field at third level is to make sure all primary and secondary schools are excellent. Possibly a pie in the sky proposition though.

A lot of skills in Oxbridge indeed are coming from Foreign students viz Chinese and Indian students in particular are doing very well. Its unfair to justify their success by broad brush of pushy parents. That only works in primary, certainly not with teenagers. From friends, colleagues through ages I have seen that their work ethics are admirable.
All said, our students can learn a few things from them, resilience, work ethics, determination to name a few. German universities are great for science and engineering, even business. We regularly hire the graduates from these universities and they are a real pleasure to work with.

Yes, I know. Which is why it is unfathomable that while we have a Dr shortage in this country we allow overseas students to take a precious place. Overseas students who then return home.

@Charlemagne38
totally agree. Any discrimination is bad. That’s what we were taught though increasing it seems totally fine by a section of people to discriminate against bright young students based on their parents’ financial status. So wrong either way! Meritocracy should decide these students future.

@EffysMum - re going state at sixth form...hmmmm. Obviously Oxbridge is wise to candidates being privately educated all the way until the sixth form until switching to state, and will take that into account. BUT, they do have quotas to fill. So two identical candidates - one at a private sixth form and another who ONLY went state for sixth form...surely they would still be inclined to choose the state candidate if it helps towards a quota?

The best and brightest privately educated students are still getting into Oxford and Cambridge, even if some students who would have got in in the past are no longer making the grade. I presume everyone agrees with this, and that there is no anti-genuinely gifted student bias going on? In which case, if in comparison some quite dimwitted state educated students are sneaking in despite lower ability, potential and exam results, a massive gulf will by now have opened up between the results of state educated students and privately educated students. Is this the case, or are there just an awful lot of sour grapes on this thread?

Sour grapes!

It wasn’t a shoo-in to do this 30 odd years ago when I was a student and it is even harder now (I know people who tried and failed) and it certainly isn’t now. Many dons at many colleges simply will not countenance taking on a new student they didn’t pick half way through the tripos especially if they suspect this was always the plan. So don’t risk it.

On which similar note, I know several friends of dcs’ who got into Oxbridge on the “easier” route purely to say they’d got into Oxbridge and are not enjoying three years of very intense classics or whatever with no time for extracurricular fun they could have had elsewhere while studying a subject they actually enjoyed.

@candleago That is exactly what is happening.
@walkaround @Littlemissprosecco Goodness, what an outburst. I don’t think anyone has ever suggested than dimwitted state candidates are sneaking in etc etc. There is, however, a strong sense of inverted snobbery on Mumsnet. As I have said previously, discrimination against any 18 year old ( or anyone) is wrong. Nobody should be advantaged or disadvantaged purely on grounds of background, be it advantaged or disadvantaged.
@WestLondonmumfromtheNorth I don’t understand why medical students, after an understandably subsidised training, are not obliged to spend a reasonable length of time working for the NHS, before they depart for eg Australia, to be much better paid. Don’t they owe us that at least?