Feedback on SPGS

[TwoSpoonsofSugar]

Would love to hear feedback from those with a child currently there. My daughter was offered an 11+ place to start in Y7. We were late entrants in that we had not been considering it but she wanted to have a go and we ended up applying just before the deadline closed. It meant we were too late to get a place on any Open Days so I haven't actually been around the school, met the Head or staff etc.

DD is naturally very academic and self motivated to learn. We didn't tutor for SPGS. By that, I mean not even at home. We are fortunate that the 11+ has been a fairly relaxed process for us. Now I'm torn. She already has an offer from a good private school within easy walking distance. SPGS would be 40 mins on the tube but she says she doesn't mind that. I commute myself for work and worry she'll regret come to regret the commute. Right now, she's able to walk home in less than 30 minutes.

DD would like to go to SPGS. I have asked her why. She says she loves going to school - she does and always has - and she knows it's a great school where she can be surrounded by girls who can keep up. At her current school it is true she isn't stretched. It is supposedly academic but she's been coasting but we've been okay with that so far.

I am worried about the school commute. I am worried that she won't have local friends as girls from SPGS come from all over the place. Equally, I don't want DD to think I've held her back from going to a school she'd prefer. I have stressed that she'd have a commute. That it's unlikely she'd have peers living round the corner to hang out with during school holidays. She says that's fine. SPGS is also more expensive but we could afford it but it means not moving to a bigger house or fancy holidays. I ask myself if the extra cost and sacrifices is worth it? If a girl is bright, wouldn't they do well anywhere? Or is the value of SPGS in its quality of teaching? My own background is that I went to a terrible state school where very little learning was done as class time was too disruptive. SPGS is a whole new world to me and I worry that DD will feel like the poor kid in comparison. We tend to go camping in the UK for our holidays and drive an old car. We live in a smallish house but it means we can budget for SPGS. I don't want DD to go there and suddenly feel she's the poor one. I get that it's all relative and perhaps it's me projecting but it would be nice to know if there are lots of families on modest incomes there too.

We don't anyone else with girls there so it's hard to get real feedback. I have read mixed reviews about girls who thrive. Girls who leave due to the academic pressures.

DD is lovely, kind girl who is naturally academic and enjoys learning. She seems to cope well under pressure. Will there be lots of low key girls like her? Or are they all super confident, competitive alpha types?

Sorry for rambling. In a wobble as you can tell! I don't want to hold her back because of my own insecurities. Like all parents, I want her to be happy and in the right school for her. I'm asking for feedback in the hope it will help guide me in making this decision. All feedback, positive and negative, welcome.

Thank you so much in advance and feel free to PM me! 🙏

I disagree that ED issues are systemic within SPGS. I speak as a mum of a 6th former, currently (literally this minute) sitting her A levels (so 7 years at the school). They exist for sure, but are not more wide spread than in other schools. There are similar issues at at other schools I am familiar with like NLCS, CLGS. SHHS etc. In fact I know of severe cases at CLGS where girls have been hospitalised. This is a non school specific phenomenon. SPGS deals with these issues well in my opinion and even offer sessions with trained psychologists.

Many girls are entitled, I am sure. No more than in other private schools though that I know of both personally and professionally. The key is for your daughters to recognise such behaviours and call them our or simply avoid these girls.

Academic pressure comes usually from within or the family. If the child consistently underperforms there will be discussions of course as the school may not be the right fit. I saw someone mention Maths sets. To illustrate my point of no pressure from the school, early on the school placed my daughter at the middle set in Maths. She asked if she could actually be placed in one of the bottom sets as she wanted an easy life (and hated maths at the time). The school obliged. She got 9 in her Maths GCSEs and has an Uni offer from Cambridge.

I do recognise however that everyone's experience is different. It is important to guide your girls as to the values they are important to you and help them stand for themselves and those values if you sense problems. The problems arise when girls feel they need to "fit in" with certain girl groups that perhaps do not share the same values. Guide your girls to form friendship groups with those who do share similar values.

Yes, which I stated, no matter which school watch out for ED. I didn’t name schools or finger points which year group. Though do people really guide their kids’ friendship groups in secondary schools?

My post was not in response to yours but to the poster's that spoke of ED "systemic within SPGS". As to the guidance this is more about guiding your daughters as to the general principles to adopt when choosing friends but also on other life issues. Not specific guidance as to whether to befriend "Jennifer" or "Amy". 😀

Perhaps time for mums from NLCS/ CLGS/SHHS to comment how widespread or systemic the ED issues in the schools?

Agreed, that's a good point. It doesn't seem that other mums talk about ED at other schools on the forums very much.

@hampsteadmum "Academic pressure comes usually from within or the family. If the child consistently underperforms there will be discussions of course as the school may not be the right fit. I saw someone mention Maths sets. To illustrate my point of no pressure from the school, early on the school placed my daughter at the middle set in Maths. She asked if she could actually be placed in one of the bottom sets as she wanted an easy life (and hated maths at the time). The school obliged. She got 9 in her Maths GCSEs and has an Uni offer from Cambridge."

This very much chimes with our experience. DD was in the bottom set for Maths initially, having hated Maths in the MIV (Y7) which may have seemed like a catch up year to some but actually involved her learning quite a number of new things at breakneck pace from her perspective, having come from a very average state primary (a decent school but with pretty low numbers of higher achievers). She was delighted to be in the bottom set for Maths with a slightly gentler pace and started to really enjoy it.

She's doing Additional Maths this year by choice (which is a level 3 qualification to give you some idea of what the spread of ability really means in terms of the 'bottom' set) and was seriously considering Maths A Level at one point. She moved up to the middle set to access the Additional Maths content at her own request and is flying with it. She just needed a bit more time to get up to speed and the school was happy to work with her so that she has always been in the set she needed to be in for the work she wanted to be doing.

The only academic pressure she's suffered from has come from her own very strong desire to do her best. Sometimes I have to tell her to put the books down for a bit. Sometimes the school tells them to put the books down for a bit (eg before GCSE mocks when they were strongly encouraged not to even start revising until a couple of weeks beforehand).

I think this can be a problem at any school. I was told by a friend a while back it was happening at the schools frequently mentioned on mumsnet and this was over 20 years ago!!

It would be fair for parents from other schools to share their feedback. It is really interesting how SPGS is so frequently in the eye of the hurricane.

I also heard that about a quarter to a third of students at SPGS have had or have some sort of ED. Not sure what the stats are at other schools, but clearly something going on there. Which may not be entirely the school's fault by the way. The school tour places a lot of emphasis on how cool is the canteen for instance. They know their clientele and may be making an effort to support the girls.

@Coronateachingagain do you mind me asking where you heard this from? A quarter to a third is incredibly high and I'm wondering how these stats have been arrived at. I'm not naive to assume that ED don't exist at schools. They do especially at all girls schools and ones where there's a pressurised academic environment. I am quite alarmed if it is as a high as a third at SPGS though so curious to know where this data comes from 😥

@Coronateachingagain oh my goodness, your statement that you "heard that about a quarter to a third of students at SPGS have had or have some sort of ED" is so alarming. Is that school doing anything about that? If 1 out of 3 girls is suffering from ED, then that is truly sad. @Coronateachingagain thank you so much for the insights!

Of course they must be and would try as much as posible. But I think that some of this comes with the profile of these hyper intelligent girls. Schools should not be fully blamed for ED problems. It is impossible to know 100% sure unless the school releases stats which I doubt they will do. But the "amazing canteen" marketing point is interesting to say the least

It is impossible to know 100% sure unless the school releases stats which I doubt they will do.

So where did you get your stats, then? Or did you just make them up?

I am really not sure how many parents who are either considering or ruling out St Paul's are likely to be swayed by amazing food. But for the avoidance of doubt, the food is really really good.

DD said the canteen is super mordern (her state primary is dilapidated) and the food is yummy - but then the application fee is 100 quid more than other school.

No not swayed by that at all.

@Coronateachingagain this is a serious statement - 1/3 of the whole student body - this is a significant number. How did you “hear” about it? Is your daughter at SPGS?

The nearest I’ve seen to statistics on this is from the previous Head’s book (https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/clarissa-farr/making-of-her/9780008271305?cq_src=google_ads&cq_cmp=19545754695&cq_con=&cq_med=pla&cq_plac=&cq_net=x&gclid=CjwKCAjwhJukBhBPEiwAniIcNdhPJWtvwcCrRf2q7OmLan2o3zc7XZ2emMAPn1LWjT5MwOoYRhzKPhoCpQYQAvD_BwE#GOR01020032)

She left in 2019ish, I think, and there’s a bit that talks about eating disorders and the attitude to food and the canteen. Her view (bearing in mind she was obviously biased) was that the school probably had fewer girls with EDs than you’d expect for a cohort of that sort.

I think even earlier than 2019 (she'd gone by the time DD applied and she started in 2018).

What does the cohort look like for oxbridge? Is the ED widespread there too?

Yeah, a third sounds like a fairly extraordinary estimate to me. Maybe in a ballet school I might expect those sorts of numbers.

A few years ago there were some numbers published showing that, yes, all-girls' schools have more of an ED problem than mixed ones, also ED's are disproportionately uncommon amongst kids with better educated parents, so, yes, based on the above it's not difficult to imagine SPGS being a mini-hotspot of sorts... but the data doesn't suggest that the difference in ED rates between e.g. regular and girls' school is night and day, it's a fairly modest difference, so a figure like a third just doesn't ring true to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2016/apr/28/eating-disorders-are-more-common-in-some-schools-than-others-but-why

😅 you guys are so funny, you love the drama, taking the top of a range and ignoring the past tenses and all.

The learning lesson is, if your daughter is not an absolute resilient top performer, then the school is not for her. Is not the other way round. Parents may drop their dreams and also must take responsibility for the pressure they may put their kids under, when they are not able to take it. You know your child. And it's a marathon.

You can also read about how popular was Clarissa among the girls at school. But what would she say - I wonder 🤔

So you made it up?

I don't think gossip and supposition makes for good 'learning lessons'.

I have no dog in this fight (DD isn't in SPGS), but you can't casually drop a statistics like that (quarter to one third ED) and expect people to not question your source. If it's entirely made up (or anecdotal observation), then it's worth mentioning it in the post, because otherwise, it doesn't help at all the OP who is seeking information about the school for her DD. She may accept your stats as close to reality (even 25% ED, your lower range, is distressingly high IMHO, if accurate).

Who among the courageous outraged people here have actually asked the school? A lot wouldn't for fear of getting a black mark. Who among those have actually read ALL posts from parents at the school here without really wondering?

How does one define ED? I asked my DD (currently in the school-last year/A-level) and she asked this question. If one counts girls who avoid carbs, eat limited carbs, skip the occasional meal then yes 1/3-1/4 is, according to her, probably about right.

Is this ED? If it is, then I fear all my adult friends have ED.

If one limits it to more serious cases then the number seems exaggerated. She also advises that food issues tend to peak in Y10.

As I said before, the school offers great support if they sense /suspect body dysmorphia or ED and they extend it to friends of those with ED if desired. My DD used to be at NLCS junior school and rumours of extreme ED cases higher up in the school were rife there too. Funnily enough though most rumours came from non NLCS parents. Lots of "almond mums" there too. We know of several girls at CLGS and SHHS with serious ED (hospitalised etc) and a couple of cases at SPGS.

I fear that most girls' schools have girls with some form of food issues-but also co-ed schools-e.g. Westminster, Highgate etc.

In my view and experience the SPGS staff seemed to be quite on it and proactive.