Feedback on SPGS

[TwoSpoonsofSugar]

Would love to hear feedback from those with a child currently there. My daughter was offered an 11+ place to start in Y7. We were late entrants in that we had not been considering it but she wanted to have a go and we ended up applying just before the deadline closed. It meant we were too late to get a place on any Open Days so I haven't actually been around the school, met the Head or staff etc.

DD is naturally very academic and self motivated to learn. We didn't tutor for SPGS. By that, I mean not even at home. We are fortunate that the 11+ has been a fairly relaxed process for us. Now I'm torn. She already has an offer from a good private school within easy walking distance. SPGS would be 40 mins on the tube but she says she doesn't mind that. I commute myself for work and worry she'll regret come to regret the commute. Right now, she's able to walk home in less than 30 minutes.

DD would like to go to SPGS. I have asked her why. She says she loves going to school - she does and always has - and she knows it's a great school where she can be surrounded by girls who can keep up. At her current school it is true she isn't stretched. It is supposedly academic but she's been coasting but we've been okay with that so far.

I am worried about the school commute. I am worried that she won't have local friends as girls from SPGS come from all over the place. Equally, I don't want DD to think I've held her back from going to a school she'd prefer. I have stressed that she'd have a commute. That it's unlikely she'd have peers living round the corner to hang out with during school holidays. She says that's fine. SPGS is also more expensive but we could afford it but it means not moving to a bigger house or fancy holidays. I ask myself if the extra cost and sacrifices is worth it? If a girl is bright, wouldn't they do well anywhere? Or is the value of SPGS in its quality of teaching? My own background is that I went to a terrible state school where very little learning was done as class time was too disruptive. SPGS is a whole new world to me and I worry that DD will feel like the poor kid in comparison. We tend to go camping in the UK for our holidays and drive an old car. We live in a smallish house but it means we can budget for SPGS. I don't want DD to go there and suddenly feel she's the poor one. I get that it's all relative and perhaps it's me projecting but it would be nice to know if there are lots of families on modest incomes there too.

We don't anyone else with girls there so it's hard to get real feedback. I have read mixed reviews about girls who thrive. Girls who leave due to the academic pressures.

DD is lovely, kind girl who is naturally academic and enjoys learning. She seems to cope well under pressure. Will there be lots of low key girls like her? Or are they all super confident, competitive alpha types?

Sorry for rambling. In a wobble as you can tell! I don't want to hold her back because of my own insecurities. Like all parents, I want her to be happy and in the right school for her. I'm asking for feedback in the hope it will help guide me in making this decision. All feedback, positive and negative, welcome.

Thank you so much in advance and feel free to PM me! 🙏

@Liam436 thanks for sharing your pov it is nice to have a view from someone that did not opt for that school at the end to understand the reason. I agree with you that commute is important and even spgs said that girls with commute of 1h or more should not even apply there.
I would rather prefer my daughter to be aware of her surrounding during that commute time rather than do homework in it not to miss her bus/tube stop etc. Plus transport can be busy at that time or they need to change tube etc.
we are lucky to be 20 min from the school so commute will not be an issue for us but when we had to decide for my older DD and whether she should attend CLsG or not that was a factor as it would have meant her going in the district line at 8 in the morning during rush hours.. not funny at all when you are an adult already.. so can’t imagine when you are a 11yo with your sport bag, violin and school bag..

Thanks @Liam436 and good to know - I was thinking more what is the OP's alternative looking like academically and pastorally

@Coronateachingagain the alternative is very good academically (90% A/A* at GCSEs) and pastorally seems okay (no school is perfect but the girls seem happy). A key difference is the ethos at SPGS and the fact that DD is adamant she wants to go. It was DD that asked to have a go at the SPGS exam. If DD was happy to go with the alternative with the shorter commute, we would happy to keep her there. We are attending the SPGS info morning and I've also now managed to find someone IRL whose child is currently there who is happy to chat with me about their experiences with the school. ALL the responses above and PMs have been amazingly helpful. We'll also get a feel for the school and more info from the info day but I'm already feeling like I have a better understand of what SPGS is offering versus our alternative. Thanks again for responding to my OP.

Would anyone be able to give some info on their DD’s experience using the school coach to go to spgs. We are looking at the route from Golders Green but quite keen to know how it is working in practise. Thank you

@Waitingwaitingwait My DD has been using it for years from Hampstead. One of the Finchley Road stops. She's on her last year now. There's no magic to it. You go to the bus stop that is closer to home 10 mins before the designated time (there's a timetable), you board the bus when it arrives, sit down and go to school. On the return trip you get on the bus at hometime (the bus leaves 15 mins after lessons end) and get off at your bus stop. Ms Ng sends lots of bus literature once you confirm your interest. It's first come, first served so do it promptly. There's a fee involved of course. Can't recall how much now as it's been on direct debit for years. I want to say around £500 per term? PM me for the timetable. The bus leaves Golders Green at 7:09.

Thanks all!!
Just wondering if anyone has any insight on SW bus to SPGS. Looking at the SPGS website, it doesnt tell much apart from that there is a bus. How is it working with the Hammersmith Bridge in equation, what route does it follow after Putney, how long is the commute?

DD is a current student. State Primary. Very Happy. Teachers excellent. I always come away from Parent Teacher nights wishing they'd been my teachers.

No uniform. Sports kit 3 days / week (at least in the lower years). Hair colour, makeup, piercings, whatever are not policed, and that generally comes from an attitude of 'you do you'. It doesn't seem to distract or detract from anything.

No exams in Yr7 (MIV). They start in Yr 8 (UIV). Plenty of homework and assignments though. DD is perfectly OK with that and just gets on with it.

Lots of clubs, societies, sports, music.

Overall, I think everyone there is good at something, whether that's academic, music, sport, art, whatever, and it reminds me (in a positive way) of the quote (or mis-quote) from Stephen Fry;

"Don't try to be clever, Fry. Everyone's clever here"

So far, it's been everything she (and I) hoped for, and nothing we didn't.

Kids seem perfectly normal and pleasant. Can't comment on the commute.

Hope that helps!

@hoppityhop super helpful!!!! It really sounds like the kind of school I would have loved as a kid!

Hi, mum of an SPGS girl here - know the school very well. It is not a healthy environment. I believe SPGS can be a good for some people and the excellent league table ranking makes it attractive, but here are some other factors to consider:

• the academic pressure is real and while it’s not directly the fault of staff, I believe it culminates from the environment being saturated so many bright children. Academics are valued here and there will naturally be students who perform more highly than your daughter in some areas. As a result, most students struggle with feeling academically inadequate and are worn out.
• pastoral care has been horrible from personal experience.
• not economically diverse and most kids are spoilt. While the school is trying to change its economic makeup, the overall culture is still dominated by people who have had an unusually rich upbringing and my daughter complains about the commonplace entitled behaviour from other students
• eating disorders are VERY commonplace. my daughter knows almost no one who has not had some kind of issue with food.
• I believe the good academic results come from the pupils they select rather than the quality of teaching. The teaching is certainly good at SPGS but certainly not a cut above other private schools in West London. A few of the teachers are actually quite poor, although to their credit they all seem to care about students and are willing to try their best to help them if they have a problem understanding something.
• don’t think the high academic standards make it a tolerant environment for shy girls who are more academically than socially oriented - it is unfortunately just as cliquey as any other school and the girls here are judgemental of one another.

Happy to elaborate if you message me.

Overall, I would advise not to undervalue the importance of the pastoral. For your daughter to thrive, she must be happy. It can be a great school for some but it is definitely not a “warm” environment.

Why are you trawling through the boards for old threads about SPGS? I'm very sorry to hear your daughter did not have a good time there but her experience is fortunately not universal.

I mean this in good jest - but I could ask you the same question! Why are you trawling the old boards and replying to people whose experience contradicts yours? No school has a universal experience, good or bad, but I am providing mine.

I also feel that when it comes to secondary schools, mumsnet is very good for parents of young girls entering the school to help each other out but there is not much input from parents who have sent their child there for a long period of time. My daughter is at her sixth year at the school, and I believe I maybe can provide some insight from older pupils.

Once again this is my daughter’s experience- will not reflect all, but she does indeed has struggled and tells me the general level of wellbeing there is less favourable than one would expect. If you want to ignore information that contradicts your views go ahead, but this is all for the benefit of the children!

I replied because I was subscribed to this thread, having previously commented on it so it popped up on my 'Threads I'm Watching' page. I do comment on threads about schools that I have personal experience of (often SPGS since there seem to be quite a lot of misconceptions out there) from time to time in the hope that this may help other parents.

My daughter is in her fifth year at the school so I guess she is an older pupil too, and has found it an almost entirely positive experience. I don't understand why your daughter is still there if she has had such a terrible time over six full years. Did you not think of taking her out and sending her to a school that would suit her better?

I was also subscribed to some of the other threads you have commented on tonight so that is why I have noticed that you seem to have searched specifically for SPGS to post your experience.

Glad to hear your DD has had a positive experience, although that was not the case for ours. At one point we considered changing schools but decided against it as she was very uncertain about being the new girl at a different school and decided to try her best to manage SPGS. After that, her experience of SPGS certainly wasn’t terrible, not bad enough to justify changing school, but it wasn’t brilliant either. She is doing rather alright now in her sixth year. She has noticed a lot of girls struggle with mental health, again not necessarily to the point where they need to change school, but to a point where it is rather noticeable.

May I ask if your daughter has noticed signs of (fairly widespread) eating disorders, body issues or academic stress in her year? If not that is certainly welcome information as it contradicts my own experience.

I posted on a few SPGS threads since as soon as I clicked on one, the other two threads were recommended to me.

We haven't had eating issues at all. DD has one friend out of a wide group who has problems with this. These existed before she went to the school according to her parents (I believe them). I think body issues are widespread in teenage girls and seem to be prevalent even in very unpressured state schools where DD has many friends. DD is actually really well balanced about this and I love that she has chosen not to remove body hair etc and wants to just be herself and is comfortable with her own choices. She doesn't care about weight or looks much at all. Her friendship group are all supportive and kind. With mental health, again I see a lot of problems in all kinds of schools and don't think this is particularly tied to one school - we have seen problems in all DD's friends' schools and many are at normal comprehensives. DD is pretty anxious at times but has had good support from school.

I do think, by the way, that the only thing you have posted that I think is actually a real problem and that I have encountered too is the issue with clearly very bright children feeling like they aren't very clever or aren't doing well enough. If you are very bright and have been comfortably at the top throughout your primary schooling it can certainly be a shock to suddenly be thrust into an environment where you are no longer the best at anything. Or even if you are outstanding at one or two things, there are still things where you are quite clearly not the best or even close.

I think the school is quite good now compared to when I was there at trying to stop girls doing too much and pushing themselves too hard. But I also think that being one of the crowd when you are used to being special can be hard to come to terms with. I asked my daughter when she got her place whether she thought she could cope with that, and she surprised me by saying she would love it (I was sceptical tbh, but she does). I knew it would be like that because I went there too and spent my secondary years feeling like I might be a bit dim despite ending up going to Oxford. It is a particular difficulty for those who come from state schools, I think. But forewarned is forearmed. And because of my experience I have been at pains to keep on pointing out to my daughter that St Paul's is NOT the real world and that she knows very well from her primary school that it isn't the real spread of ability and that being bad at (in her case) Biology actually means that in a normal school you'd be in the top set and everyone would think you were really good at it. For DD being bad at Biology means she is stressing about maybe getting a 7 at GCSE. I don't care if she does and have told her so. It has been quite a struggle to get her to believe that she is good at it compared to many! So I really recognise that part and also think that there are probably many children who just can't cope with that. It is probably difficult in advance to know if that is going to be a problem for your child.

But for those children who go to a normal school or even just a less academic but still selective school and are comfortably at the top of lots of stuff and then end up at good universities where everyone is just as good as them at whatever they have chosen to study, the shock just comes later. Swings and roundabouts. For DD as I say, it has been almost entirely positive. Happy to expand on the not positive things but they don't include pastoral care, spoilt kids, poor teaching, being worn out, or anyone being judgemental.

I'm sorry your DD had a rubbish time. Hope she does better now and ends up wherever makes her happy.

Glad to hear your DD is doing so well! It’s so good to have parents who recognise that 7s are fine, children don’t have to get all 9s to be brilliant and that they are still bright even if they go to a school full of other brilliant children.

But please do not tell me the other issues I mentioned are not “real issues” because they absolutely are from what I’ve seen amongst my DD’s cohort. While every school struggles with certain issues, there are certain problems that I think are systemic within SPGS. For example on the issue of EDs, it is probably because (for whatever reason) so many girls who go to the school seem to be thin that there is a more pervasive culture of body issues. Thinness is “the norm” there and is unfortunately prioritized by students over their wellbeing. There is definitely also an entitled culture within my daughter’s year although this might be present in other private schools - I don’t know. And I have heard firsthand of bullying not being handled effectively. Hopefully this is just due to a few bad apples on the team but I thought better let parents know and make an informed choice!

Obviously there are lots of lovely people there, students and staff alike, but compared to other West London private schools it doesn’t strike me as being as “standout” as some Mumsnet frequenters think. The academic benefits of such a rigorous school should be balanced and considered against the negative side of the school, which fewer people are aware of. Most of my DD’s friends there have serious issues which is pretty sad.

Glad you are being a great parent to your DD and making her so aware that she is a bright young girl no matter what. Carry on doing that as that is exactly what we should all be doing!

OP here.

@laurasparrows your response is now making me anxious. Thanks for your feedback and certainly these are issues that I think are prevalent and we need to watch out for all in all high schools. I'm truly sorry your DD hasn't had a positive experience at SPGS. The eating issue is something that's top of mind for me. The academic pressure I'm currently less concerned about as DD's friends are all super bright and perform as well, sometimes better, than her and it doesn't bother her at all. She's happy that they can all work at similar paces. Luckily, DD enjoys and finds studying easy so keeping up shouldn't be an issue. She got in entirely off her own back. No tutoring and no extra work beyond the Atom her current school set to prepare for the 11+ so we think (and hope) she'll be fine with the academic rigour. I don't naively think that schools like SPGS get their results because of excellent teaching. We're at an academically selective school now and I can already see that it's the girls that get these results rather than it being down to exceptional teaching. What we liked about SPGS was the ethos, the liberal thinking and the ability for students to learn at greater depth. However, EDs, pastoral care and lack of economic diversity/entitled behaviour are our concerns we share and I am especially worried about whether there would be enough "middle income" earners like us. We live very modestly to afford the school fees. Small house, camping rather than ski trips kind of thing but still a very comfortable life and that's the thing we always emphasize to our kids. However, we didn't want to deny DD SPGS (it's what she wanted) on the basis that lots of wealthy children can go there so we'd be in the minority. Economic diversity has to start somewhere. Again, thanks for the feedback. We've accepted already but, equally, it's good to go in with eyes wide open :) Our back up plan is that if DD doesn't get on with it (or we notice that her mental health is being impacted), we will wait for an ad hoc place to come up at her old school and reapply as they'd love to have her back.

@BonjourCrisette I truly hope that my DD has the same positive experience as your DD. I definitely agree with your comment about swings and roundabouts. I went to an appalling state school as we lived in a deprived area. It's been shut down now and abolished. As I was a bright child, I sailed through the academics and got stellar results (I wouldn't say that was down to the teaching) with a couple of academic scholarships thrown in. However, I walked out of high school without any real aspirations (no careers guidance at all), confidence, guidance on next steps and certainly poorly equipped to deal with the real world in terms of social skills. My grades got me into a top uni and that's definitely where the shock came in! After years effortlessly being top of the class academically, I was suddenly very much the bottom pack! I also didn't have the skills my uni peers had: ability to think independently and critically, self belief and confidence in my own abilities etc. I actually almost failed my first year at uni as a result😬

From the thread sounds like OP's DD is from a private all through school.

Does private through school set Atom learning practice for 11+ nowadays?

It’s a good fit for some and not for others. Like Bonjour, my dd is a few years in and I’ve not seen evidence of widespread eating disorders, bullying has been dealt with promptly and the pastoral care has been good when I’ve needed to use it. I appreciate others will have different experiences.

I do think that the the school’s reputation can create problems. Some parents want the name, and so don’t necessarily think as hard about the fit for their daughter. It would be a tough place to be if you wanted to be effortlessly top at everything. Or even if you wanted to work hard and be top at something.

I worry that parents who punish test results that aren’t top and who care lots about which Maths set their daughter is in make this worse, and pile pressure upon their daughters which can lead to difficult behaviours. Though of course some of it is just teenage girls being, as a cohort, relatively susceptible to issues like eating disorders.

OP My best advice is to prepare your dd for being one of the pack academically,
musically, in sport etc. if she isn’t, she’ll be pleasantly surprised. If she is, then it’s important to make very clear to her that that’s fine with you, as long as she’s working a reasonable amount and having fun (whatever form fun takes for her - could be lacrosse or choir or maths club, or all three).

No matter which school, please watch out for ED, serious and long term health implications. The new thing is clean, eating which reduces food group and about being healthy…could lead to ED. Friends’ kids with ED, years of therapy and university flat mates calling worried etc etc.

@laurasparrows thank you for sharing your experience with the school. It sounds absolutely dreadful that your DD has had to endure six years in such a poorly suited environment. Spending 6-7 years in such a state must be really difficult. Thanks again for sharing and I hope she's okay. All the best.

But please do not tell me the other issues I mentioned are not “real issues” because they absolutely are from what I’ve seen amongst my DD’s cohort.

Sorry, just wanted to clarify that I absolutely am not suggesting the issues weren't real for you and were not a problem for your poor daughter. I just wanted to say that it's not something we have experienced. I sincerely hope our experience is more common than yours and wish both of you all the very best.

@PreplexJ I've no idea what other private all through schools do. My DD's school was pretty relaxed to be honest and I feel lucky that DD had such an easy 11+ experience. They just had Maths homework on Atom once a week in the last term. I don't even think it was geared towards the 11+ but there's an algorithm so questions are calibrated for the student's level. I also think Atom was used as much to keep it online versus printing out paper sheets and sticking them in workbooks. To be honest, it seemed to be less than what friends from state schools were doing who were subscribing to and using Atom and tutors outside of school.

@HighRopes that's good advice. My DD has no desire to be top of the pack but we're definitely prepping her to understand that there will be lots and lots of bright girls there. She really likes learning hence why we thought SPGS would be a good fit. We just want her to be happy and, most importantly, make some really nice friends with similar values to us and who could be friends for life. Do parents really punish daughters who aren't in the top set at maths? 😧

@HawaiiWake so true. With the rise in social media and our kids' exposure to it, it's definitely something to worry about. My close friend in high school suffered badly from anorexia and I have adult friends - male and female - who have unhealthy relationships with food. I know it can be more of an issue in girls' schools and it's actually something I did ask SPGS about in terms of how they monitor and safeguard against this.

Thanks everyone for the insights. No school is perfect and it can also depend on the cohort you're in which is an element of luck as well. Again, I'm sorry @laurasparrows that your DD has not had a good experience. I really hope she's okay and wish you both all the best.

Ultimately, if it doesn't work out for us, we will move our DD.

@TwoSpoonsofSugar It is good to know that, thanks.

Just learn that Atom learning does have a special product called Atom prime which is free for primary school to use as general curriculum and practice purpose. I really hope a lot of more state school (not just 11+) to access this (or similar product) to enhance the students learning experience.

@PreplexJ I actually first heard about Atom from my friends at state school who were all using it outside of school! You can pay a subscription fee which is much cheaper than school fees. Lol!