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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

SW London Private and Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023 (part V)

995 replies

QuiteAJourney · 30/01/2023 18:43

Following from our previous threads, including the latest (link below) www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4723610-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023?page=40

Looking forward to continuing the journey together

OP posts:
PreplexJ · 01/02/2023 12:07

@pme just slightly tweak on the slogan 2 as a parent on state primary school.

Slogan 2: if you need to go to 11+ prep school to get in the school, then the school is not right for you. 😃

No offence to any prep school parents, it is just a joke. 😂

Trickleg · 01/02/2023 12:09

@PreplexJ would you be kind enough to just let it lie? We are all trying to be supportive and friendly and a couple of posters seem determined to sow division. Thankyou.

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 01/02/2023 12:12

@Trickleg Just thanks.

OP posts:
LondonMum20222 · 01/02/2023 12:13

QuiteAJourney · 01/02/2023 12:12

@Trickleg Just thanks.

Seconded.

Pleasegrowmore · 01/02/2023 12:15

@SamPoodle123 sorry (slow catching up!) you asked if I'd find out where my DD is in her cohort if she gets into one of the academically selective schools.

I feel this is a really naive question, but would I actually be able to find that out? Do private schools (or indeed grammars) tell you where they fall academically at the beginning, or do you mean after a certain amount of time at the school.

A lot of chat on this thread tbh makes me realise how ignorant/ naive/ blisfully ignorant (delete as approrpriate!) I am about school testing outside of state schools tbh.

readingcat · 01/02/2023 12:34

PreplexJ · 01/02/2023 08:17

For the mums like to find the data and research evidence. Let me share a research published in nature science and learning. It is useful to have data and research to stimulate critical thinking (not confirmation bias for some).

Differences in exam performance between pupils attending selective and non-selective schools mirror the genetic differences between them

"Putting our research within the context of rGE, we suggest that in addition to students being selected into schools based on their genetically influenced traits (evocative rGE), children themselves also actively select educational environments that correlate with their genotype (active rGE). In the case of high achieving students, these environments might be challenging or competitive academic institutions, which grammar and private schools are often reputed to be."

Let us PLEASE not open a ridiculous debate about this, but for the academic record, I must note that PreplexJ has linked to research led by a controversial figure, Robert Plomin. If you read the paper, you need to be aware of this and to do your own research into the contexts of Plomin's work and the debate surrounding it.

PreplexJ · 01/02/2023 12:40

readingcat · 01/02/2023 12:34

Let us PLEASE not open a ridiculous debate about this, but for the academic record, I must note that PreplexJ has linked to research led by a controversial figure, Robert Plomin. If you read the paper, you need to be aware of this and to do your own research into the contexts of Plomin's work and the debate surrounding it.

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It is not ridiculous debate. @readingcat you can disagree with other peoples research effort. But I think the other side of the story is also true.

Can post another article here as fruit for thought

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/mar/23/selective-schools-make-no-difference-to-gcse-results-study-says

readingcat · 01/02/2023 12:44

@PreplexJ I didn't say whether I agreed or disagreed. I said that readers should note the context to Plomin's work. My reference to a 'ridiculous debate' was a plea for people not to derail a support thread about London secondary school entrance with a debate about the merits or otherwise of genetic determinism.

SamPoodle123 · 01/02/2023 12:48

Pleasegrowmore · 01/02/2023 12:15

@SamPoodle123 sorry (slow catching up!) you asked if I'd find out where my DD is in her cohort if she gets into one of the academically selective schools.

I feel this is a really naive question, but would I actually be able to find that out? Do private schools (or indeed grammars) tell you where they fall academically at the beginning, or do you mean after a certain amount of time at the school.

A lot of chat on this thread tbh makes me realise how ignorant/ naive/ blisfully ignorant (delete as approrpriate!) I am about school testing outside of state schools tbh.

Oh, I have no idea if they would actually tell you. From what I have read it seems some schools might. I did try asking how my dd did on the exam to two of the schools we applied to and got no response (perhaps the might respond if we get an offer and I chase them?). I am not sure if I am actually going to chase again to find out....still debating.

PreplexJ · 01/02/2023 13:04

readingcat · 01/02/2023 12:44

@PreplexJ I didn't say whether I agreed or disagreed. I said that readers should note the context to Plomin's work. My reference to a 'ridiculous debate' was a plea for people not to derail a support thread about London secondary school entrance with a debate about the merits or otherwise of genetic determinism.

I think you are right, we shouldn't debate if children are naturally bright enough to get into the desired school in this thread.

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 01/02/2023 13:07

SamPoodle123 · 01/02/2023 12:48

Oh, I have no idea if they would actually tell you. From what I have read it seems some schools might. I did try asking how my dd did on the exam to two of the schools we applied to and got no response (perhaps the might respond if we get an offer and I chase them?). I am not sure if I am actually going to chase again to find out....still debating.

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I think that the schools might be more amenable to discuss once the process is over for that particular DC at least (either because they have not progressed to a specific stage) or after clear if they got or not an offer.
I can see why they would not want to discuss while consideration of a candidate is still ongoing - telling where your DC falls in terms of the exam creates expectations in terms of managing expectations (which would be difficult to manage) when there other stages / factors being considered.

OP posts:
Lurkingbutinterested · 01/02/2023 13:28

Maybe the more theoretical debate about natural intelligence etc could move to another thread.

Lurkingbutinterested · 01/02/2023 13:30

QuiteAJourney · 01/02/2023 13:07

I think that the schools might be more amenable to discuss once the process is over for that particular DC at least (either because they have not progressed to a specific stage) or after clear if they got or not an offer.
I can see why they would not want to discuss while consideration of a candidate is still ongoing - telling where your DC falls in terms of the exam creates expectations in terms of managing expectations (which would be difficult to manage) when there other stages / factors being considered.

Show quote history

KGS said they’d provide feedback (if asked for) in the Summer 2023. Arguably it might feel a bit late by then but the offer was made.

It’s probably easier for them once the admission craziness has died down

Pleasegrowmore · 01/02/2023 14:35

Oh yes I certainly wouldn't want to ask anything while the process is ongoing.

Actually occurs to me that Tiffin (DD's first choice) do let you know your results for the Stage 2 tests if you are on the waiting list. Though oddly perhaps not if you get a place straight out!?

sugarcookie5 · 01/02/2023 14:45

The waiting!! Ahh ha ha hope you are all ok

poppybuttons · 01/02/2023 15:03

@Pleasegrowmore , it's so all the Tiffin pupils start on an equal footing. The results given to those on the Tiffin WL indicate where they are on the WL. The website elevenplusexams.co.uk (in the surrey forum) runs a thread with Tiffin WL marks and when they translate to offers between April and October.
If you get an offer from any school it indicates they want your dc, everyone has got stories of WL students ending up as top of the year and those with academic scholarships floundering within the first few years.

PreplexJ · 01/02/2023 15:48

Pleasegrowmore · 01/02/2023 14:35

Oh yes I certainly wouldn't want to ask anything while the process is ongoing.

Actually occurs to me that Tiffin (DD's first choice) do let you know your results for the Stage 2 tests if you are on the waiting list. Though oddly perhaps not if you get a place straight out!?

There are simply not enough places for grammar school like Tiffin to take in high academic ability girls. I would say if your DD in TGS WL, it means she is more than capable of meeting the high academic standard required by most of the top selective school in London, including Tiffin.

Before accepting private school offers it is generally good time to get some specific feed back from different schools. One school could be argued just an outliner cases, but a few should give you a good picture where your DD stands against the entire 11+ SW London cohort. It is just anuseful information and additional data point for your decision making.

Pleasegrowmore · 01/02/2023 15:54

Oh yes sorry @poppybuttons I totally see the reasons for it, makes sense and thank you for the nod towards that thread, I'll take a look if (fingers crossed) it becomes relevant! Too superstitious to look now .. 😬

la14 · 01/02/2023 17:31

"Before accepting private school offers it is generally good time to get some specific feed back from different schools. One school could be argued just an outliner cases, but a few should give you a good picture where your DD stands against the entire 11+ SW London cohort. It is just anuseful information and additional data point for your decision making."

The thing is with this - they do not take GCSEs in VR, NVR or 'CAT skills' or Atom or whatever!

Chances are, they will never see those kind of tests again, so they are totally irrelevant.

In any secondary school they will obviously be exposed to a range of subjects across a curriculum. An adaptive computer test or Atom has no bearing on who will enjoy or excel in Geography or RE or History or Latin. Most subjects in fact. In any school, there will be some who are strong in particular subjects - this is regardless of their 'ranking' on entering the school. Those tests are blunt instruments. CAT scores also change.

LoveMyADHD · 01/02/2023 17:33

On a different note….Have to say in this thread, the usage of appropriate grammar and the quality of vocabulary is breathtaking …. I wonder why 🤔

glad to see we all benefited from the process 😂

la14 · 01/02/2023 17:45

Although I would say, at one if the schools my DS went to which was one if the 'superselectives,' they did some kind of multi-choice test around Xmas in Year 7 and it was totally unannounced. A lot can change in a year and at 11 plus, some kids are so much more 'prepped' to jump through hoops than others, so they want to see where they are at once actually in the school and also, if there are any 'spiky profiles' (eg. dyslexia, speed processing issues) so that they can provide support.

Lurkingbutinterested · 01/02/2023 17:49

CFC is out

snowgirl1 · 01/02/2023 17:58

DD has been offered a place at Claremont. I'm so delighted for her, as it's been rejections all the way so far. Hope anyone else who wanted an offer from CFC gets one.

VickiMent · 01/02/2023 18:01

We have an offer from CFC too, it was an anxious wait.

Original poster
QuiteAJourney · 01/02/2023 18:01

snowgirl1 · 01/02/2023 17:58

DD has been offered a place at Claremont. I'm so delighted for her, as it's been rejections all the way so far. Hope anyone else who wanted an offer from CFC gets one.

Wonderful news! So happy for you and your DD!

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