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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

SW London Private & Grammar: applying for year 7 in 2023

998 replies

QuiteAJourney · 19/01/2023 13:40

Following up from
www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4716365-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-iii?page=40

Sharing the journey

OP posts:
Turquoiseturtle1234 · 22/01/2023 21:23

What is the CAT score needed for top schools (above 50) then and do the schools share this with the senior schools? I am curious because, surprisingly our Prep does not share this score with the parents! But I am pretty sure they do this.

LoveMyADHD · 22/01/2023 21:26

Turquoiseturtle1234 · 22/01/2023 21:23

What is the CAT score needed for top schools (above 50) then and do the schools share this with the senior schools? I am curious because, surprisingly our Prep does not share this score with the parents! But I am pretty sure they do this.

If it’s top top 135+
hampton, leh prob 130+ But happy to be stand corrected

our head shared with everything at DS reference 😏

DailySnooze · 22/01/2023 21:37

This reply has been withdrawn

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Turquoiseturtle1234 · 22/01/2023 21:43

@DailySnooze I also wonder that; our Head says that CAT scores cannot be improved much and it is what it is... however I wonder if we missed a trick there...

SamPoodle123 · 22/01/2023 21:44

@Turquoiseturtle1234 thanks :) She is very enthusiastic and loves doing it all.

underthesea3 · 22/01/2023 21:45

Turquoiseturtle1234 · 22/01/2023 21:18

Hats off to the state school parents - the level of commitment needed is very high there. With low level of guidance from the school and no CAT scores etc. how did you decide what schools to apply to? Do the state schools stream as well and give guidance on senior schools?
I agree with all the posters above - depending on the school targeted, there is very different levels of push needed. Everyone does what they feel is right and what their DC can bear!
@SamPoodle123 - really impressed with the wide variety of activities your DC pursues.

No there is zero guidance from state primary with regards to what schools to apply to. I haven't even told our school about interviews etc and no one has asked. They are (rightly, but frustratingly) only focused on their SATS in May. Our school has been great about time off for exams/ interviews but apart from an 8 minute (on Google meet so cuts you off!) parents evening twice a year there is nothing. With regards to which schools to go for, we went for a (very wide) range of schools (5 in total). Super scary selective to less selective (we viewed and loved all of them). Certainly haven't felt relaxed about the process but the work has paid off definitely- it has been a steep learning curve for us as a family !!!!

AC7001 · 22/01/2023 21:47

Not as bad as that as I observed. Many boys in our prep schools got into interview stage in schools ranked 50-100 with relative low level of preparation (guess about a few hours a week, though not MN myth of 1-2 hours). They are targeting these schools anyway.

For some, who are Hampton (or equivalent) hopefuls, it will be much more. For one who see Hampton as a back up (would you believe it?), the extent of preparation is not that every boy can take.

AC7001 · 22/01/2023 21:49

But then we are in a prep, which is teaching at least a year ahead of state. If you are in state, you need to put in a bit more effort.

LondonMum20222 · 22/01/2023 21:53

This reply has been deleted

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

@DailySnooze It's absolutely not true that everyone who gets a place at a London day school has a CAT score over 120! As you say there just aren't enough children that bright to fulfill that stat. There's a great thread on MN dispelling myths about CAT scores and the long tail even top schools will have with students (the lower ranking the school, the longer the tail, obviously). Plenty of really good schools have average CAT scores amongst applicants closer to 115 (obviously being an average, some will be higher, some lower). So don't fret - all is definitely not lost!

LoveMyADHD · 22/01/2023 21:53

This reply has been deleted

The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

Oh I don’t think 70 include their preps…

also the preps that I am aware of are generally aiming for LU, Hampton or equivalent so very small number goes to Radnor 😉

Rockingallovertheworld88 · 22/01/2023 21:58

AC7001 · 22/01/2023 21:47

Not as bad as that as I observed. Many boys in our prep schools got into interview stage in schools ranked 50-100 with relative low level of preparation (guess about a few hours a week, though not MN myth of 1-2 hours). They are targeting these schools anyway.

For some, who are Hampton (or equivalent) hopefuls, it will be much more. For one who see Hampton as a back up (would you believe it?), the extent of preparation is not that every boy can take.

I have talked about schools exactly like Hampton. I think we need to accept that there’s a great variety of preparation that parents (sorry children!!!!!) do and that’s not necessarily wrong and won’t change and exists for many reasons everyone has discussed. Parents who do more would obviously like to feel many children do the same…… and parents who do less think likewise! But it’s just not right to say that people are ignorant to think children don’t need 2 hours a day. Im sure some children are genii and very very bright so I’m not talking about these but……

SamPoodle123 · 22/01/2023 21:59

AC7001 · 22/01/2023 21:10

Regarding the level of preparation required, I am astounded to see some responses above. Unless these parents are aiming at schools ranked much outside 50 or even outside 100, there are a lot of lies there, for whatever reason. In our prep and among my friends, there are plenty of parents who are okay with their DC going to a senior school ranked much lower than 50, oven outside 100, and the preparation of their children is really quite low, like above.

But if you aim at the top schools, like Hampton, LU, Highgate (or equivalent for girls' schools), it is simply not reality. If you are talking about Westminster, St Paul, Kings, SPGS, G& L etc, the extent of preparation by many parents is then at really another level.

Whatever the motive, for all prospective 11+ next year or beyond, please take note of what I said above. You do whatever preparation required according to the level of schools you are targeting.

Def no lies here and dd got interviews with all the schools she applied to G&L, Putney, Emanuel and FHSS (FHSS interviews all though). She only started prep end of May year 5 and exactly what I said. And her tutoring was group via zoom. This worked for her to get to interview stage. Was it enough to get an offer? We will find out! She goes to a state school so we were very much out of the loop with the whole 11+ thing. The kids rarely do it at her school. I was told by another parent about the level of prep that goes on at her prep school....I was seriously shocked. It is exactly what was mentioned by @PreplexJ However, I do feel that not all dc need to do this and it depends on the dc.

Link2022 · 22/01/2023 22:01

LoveMyADHD · 22/01/2023 21:07

Oh sounds so much better thank you!! 😍

no dukes prep don’t do any of that! They just register! Girlfriend of mine has DS on y6 in one of their preps … he did absolutely nothing and he has a space already 😫

Show quote history

Some dukes school kids attended, they were invited and wanted to get a feel for teachers and the experience. Some have places but didn’t attend.

AC7001 · 22/01/2023 22:01

Whatever you want to say. No need to justify, no evidence needed. Freedom of speech here on MN.

LoveMyADHD · 22/01/2023 22:02

Link2022 · 22/01/2023 22:01

Some dukes school kids attended, they were invited and wanted to get a feel for teachers and the experience. Some have places but didn’t attend.

Show quote history

Is the entry to Senior totally automatic?

SamPoodle123 · 22/01/2023 22:02

underthesea3 · 22/01/2023 21:45

No there is zero guidance from state primary with regards to what schools to apply to. I haven't even told our school about interviews etc and no one has asked. They are (rightly, but frustratingly) only focused on their SATS in May. Our school has been great about time off for exams/ interviews but apart from an 8 minute (on Google meet so cuts you off!) parents evening twice a year there is nothing. With regards to which schools to go for, we went for a (very wide) range of schools (5 in total). Super scary selective to less selective (we viewed and loved all of them). Certainly haven't felt relaxed about the process but the work has paid off definitely- it has been a steep learning curve for us as a family !!!!

Show quote history

Yes, exactly no direction or help from the school in regards to 11+ or what schools were realistic to apply to. I used Atom learning scores to get an idea of where to apply.

AC7001 · 22/01/2023 22:02

I was just warning prospective 11+ parents about the MN myths.

Turquoiseturtle1234 · 22/01/2023 22:07

It is really difficult to know where to apply and most parents tend to over apply even when we are guided by the Prep Head....
On a different note, did you find that schools are checking for interests and hobbies - very few of my DC interviews were about understanding the child and motivations; most of them asked questions on english and maths, which they were tested on in any case; some schools like FH did activities.

woohooho · 22/01/2023 22:14

@AC7001
Re MN myth- I don't think anyone has said they only did 1-2 hours a week the whole way through. Just that they didn't do 1-2 hours a day the whole way through, and I'm not sure it's helpful 'warning' people that they'll only succeed at 11+ if they do that.

It is perfectly possible to get into 'top' schools without tutoring for hours and hours every week from Y4. And a lot of state schools are not behind in terms of literacy and maths, they just haven't had so much exam prep or French, Latin etc so will need more work on timings and VR/ NVR.
DS got into Hampton, LU and KCS and he wasn't top of his class at his state primary, is no genius and certainly didn't do ridiculous levels of tutoring. Have absolutely no idea what his CAT score is but he could write a good story and interviews well. Knew all the maths from school but was slow answering questions so did the usual working on timings etc.

AC7001 · 22/01/2023 22:16

Again, you are free to say whatever you want.

Just a warning to prospective parents and this is not the norm among those targeting the top schools. You make your own judgement.

AC7001 · 22/01/2023 22:19

While those saying their kids spent long hours preparing risk only have downside of being label tiger mums, there is really no upside for them to say so.

But those who proclaim the MN myth, there is every reason for them to say it.. And I bet you can guess what that is.

PreplexJ · 22/01/2023 22:22

I'm not a sutton mock PTA as disclaimer. Those coming year parents if they believe their DCs are naturally bright (maybe not top of class) and can do 1-2 hour prep to get into top grammar or top selective private in SW London for 2024 without problrm.

I would suggest to sign up the sutton mocks as a pre-drill before Easter. It only take you less than 2 hours video game or TV time so no child abuse here, and it is wiser to be cautions on MN kids ability than sorry.

PreplexJ · 22/01/2023 22:26

Turquoiseturtle1234 · 22/01/2023 22:07

It is really difficult to know where to apply and most parents tend to over apply even when we are guided by the Prep Head....
On a different note, did you find that schools are checking for interests and hobbies - very few of my DC interviews were about understanding the child and motivations; most of them asked questions on english and maths, which they were tested on in any case; some schools like FH did activities.

DD interviews has only NLCS does academic questions so far. All of the interviews as about hobbies and interests etc, and yep the school don't seem to be genuine interest in them anyway.

And I'm sure all those private schools know about the hours of prep required, I've told my DD just tell them what you did if asked tutor prep time , if you are not get in because of that, the school is not right for you. No school has asked this question so far.

SamPoodle123 · 22/01/2023 22:44

Turquoiseturtle1234 · 22/01/2023 22:07

It is really difficult to know where to apply and most parents tend to over apply even when we are guided by the Prep Head....
On a different note, did you find that schools are checking for interests and hobbies - very few of my DC interviews were about understanding the child and motivations; most of them asked questions on english and maths, which they were tested on in any case; some schools like FH did activities.

This is what surprised me. G&L did not ask any math. They asked about her hobbies. She had one math question from FH. I was surprised G&L asked very basic questions. It made me wonder how the 15 minute interview would help decide anything. It made me wonder if their decision is based mainly on the exam. I felt Putney and FH were looking for more and would be able to see whether dd was a good fit for the school or not. I have heard excellent things about G&L, but the interview did make me question how they select girls. It seems mainly from exam. But perhaps the schools are so used to the interview process and 15 mins is all they need.

knopka · 22/01/2023 22:52

Ladies,talk to a worried mum please.

My boys are a good students but we have moved around different countries plus when we hit UK lockdowns, they were in a SW London state school ie very little help and I had a toddler on my hands as well.

Being abroad doesn't help with 11+and 10+ prep, they just don't do it here. We went into to process completely blind and couldn't even get tutors, they had maybe 2 months of 2 hours a week prep.

I know from their current school that ther CAT4 scores were 133 and 131 respectively (both scored 141 of verbal part).

The question is, if they don't get offers from the 2 schools we hoped for, what options are there SW15/18 way? We won't be able to apply to any state so it has to be private. Somewhere with strong Pastoral Care and decent activities in terms of sports and drama etc.

We won't know until February obviously but I would like to have a little net (if it is at all possible).