SW London Private & Grammar: applying for year 7 in 2023

[QuiteAJourney]

Following up from
www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4716365-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-iii?page=40

Sharing the journey

And last year the head of St Paul's Junior wrote to parents to tell them to stop tutoring their children at the school.

My dd does Monday newspaper until 4:30pm and then ballet 5:30-6:30pm, Tuesday she is now free, but before she was doing her 2 hour group tutoring via zoom on this day. Wednesday she does choir 5-6pm and then gymnastics 7-8pm. Thursday netball 3:30pm-430pm. Friday netball game 6-6:30pm. Sat netball 10-11am. Saturday afternoon is now free, but she was doing drama, but I convinced her to drop it for now, as we wanted to do family outings and this made it difficult. Sunday she has 2.5 hours of Art class in the morning and afternoons she sometimes has a netball tournament. That is her week. Her school (state) gives probably about 30 mins of homework a week during English and French week is about an hour of homework. She kept all activities during 11+ prep/exams. We also live close to school, so I think that helps.

Yes I heard the same, and similar story with Butes headmistress a few year back.

Why do you think the school head would do that if majority parents tutor their kids outside school less 1-2 hours a week instead of playing video games?

@Trickleg "No one has said that"

If you scroll a few pages up or further.. MN probably less appreciate hardwork most kids are naturally talented gems obviously.

@PreplexJ - you're being deliberately obtuse
It's directed to the subset of parents who relentlessly tutor their children excessively before entry and continually throughout school. The ones whose children played video games and watched TV when they were 10 are probably still doing that aged 14 whilst managing their time efficiently to also do their homework without their parents or a tutor having to help them. Good preparation for university and beyond. A little bit of tutoring for a GCSE they may be struggling in, fine. General tutoring all through secondary to keep up ( or purposely to stay ahead of classmates) not fine.
Pretty soul destroying for a teacher to start teaching a maths topic to a class of bright boys to be told that they've already done it with their tutor. What's the point?

Bute is known for tutoring and extra work. If you speak to those parents you will hear they do the 1-2 hours of 11+ prep a day! I am close to someone with a dd there and she tells me all. I was seriously shocked by it. But I don't think all are like this, but yes, there are many that do.

@PreplexJ - am off to watch crap TV with my DCs now but I hope your child does well after all their hard work and gets into a school you are both happy with.

@SamPoodle123 I'm sure most of Butes kids that went to SPGS and other top schools in West London is absolutely thriving after all.

Thank you lovely , really reassuring!

@woohooho "Pretty soul destroying for a teacher to start teaching a maths topic to a class of bright boys to be told that they've already done it with their tutor. What's the point?"

Yes I heard that too, those tiger parents don't need to do 11+ always have to find something else to do.. Enjoy your bonding time.

Lovely message at the end xx

<<off to watch Love Island >>

They do get into the top schools, but they also feel a lot of pressure. And that being said, kids that do not do crazy amount of work also get into the same top schools.

"that being said, kids that do not do crazy amount of work also get into the same top schools."

That must be a MN kid. I have go to prep my kids now (worry her not keeping up at secondary school). Good night.

@LoveMyADHD you are most welcome!
Good luck (and so good that Radnor will be making offers by the end of the month - keeping fingers crossed for you!)

Thank you @PreplexJ for your refreshing honesty. It’s beyond boring listening to all these Mums going on about their DCs being polymaths. 1-1.5 hours of Atom a week? What a joke? I hope there aren’t any Mums reading this and believing it. There are some DCs who can and will scale the process without any tutoring at all but it’s beyond dishonest to pretend that one hour of work/day isn’t the bare minimum. Thanks again @PreplexJ . I wish more people came out and displayed humility and honesty about what it takes. As a recent returnee to London, I have had to learn the hard way but still remain confused about what is to gain by all the pretence. All the best with the waiting, it isn’t easy!

Beyond honest to think 1hr/per day isn’t the minimum? I’ve come on again to voice that this isn’t the case at all. This doesn’t mean the exam technique and additional knowledge isn’t needed depended upon where your child is before. But there is a sector of parents (clearly!) who feel this is what is needed and some of they kids will get places.

There are many who wouldn’t dream of doing this and don’t have genii children and they get into the top schools. not with no practice or additional learning or thinking about exams but….good god. 2 hours a night for 2 years or even one year!

Full disclosure for balance

Year 4 until May of Year 5
30 mins a day homework (all types - school/tutor/atom)
2 hours group tutor a week (cheaper than 1:1)
Day off on Sunday
Total - 4.5 hours a week

We then did the Sutton Mocks and totally flopped - that coupled with the KGS 10+ feedback that told us we were also really behind and was a bit of a wake up call. Turned out although DD knew the syllabus she didn’t know how to sit a test so we started working on timings.

Year 5 May - September Year 6
1 hour a day homework/past papers
Three hours Group Tutor
Day off on Sunday
Total - 8 Hours a week

Sept Year 6 - Early Dec Year 6
1 hour a day homework
Five hours group tutor
Day off on Sunday
Total - 9 Hours a week

NB:The days DD had the group tutor she wouldn’t do HW

Also the amount we did was the absolute maximum I could manage to get DD to do with a major meltdown and it being counterproductive.

We’re at a state school and live a few minutes from school. DD continued most clubs - Tennis, Netball, swimming as well as Piano.

We have a no TV rule Mon - Fri (still seemed to manage endless TV watching at the weekend however!)

We were aiming for the grammars so perhaps if you’re not going for one of those this may be excessive. We also had a disrupted Summer due to a family emergency hence didn’t do any extra stuff at this time and had to pick up the pace in September.

Who knows if this is too much or too little but it is the god honest truth!

I hear you @PreplexJ .

How rigorous the prep scheme was is strongly correlated to DC’s school, quantity/quality of hw, child’s natural ability, when DC started prepping, how much DC is invested/motivated, what resources/prior knowledge DC has access to, how important it is for the family AND what schools they are aiming for.

Kudos to all state school children who have never done Reasoning at school, whose taught curriculum lags approximately a year behind in Literacy and Maths yet received no/limited tutoring, had very little hw/11+ focused support from school, AND still managed to remain in the game for top London day schools at this point in the process. (MY DC WASNT ONE OF THOSE EXTREMELY ABLE ONES SO WE HAD TO SUPPORT AS MUCH AS HE NEEDED 😅)

Wow - long message - sorry 😃.

Oh sounds so much better thank you!! 😍

no dukes prep don’t do any of that! They just register! Girlfriend of mine has DS on y6 in one of their preps … he did absolutely nothing and he has a space already 😫

Regarding the level of preparation required, I am astounded to see some responses above. Unless these parents are aiming at schools ranked much outside 50 or even outside 100, there are a lot of lies there, for whatever reason. In our prep and among my friends, there are plenty of parents who are okay with their DC going to a senior school ranked much lower than 50, oven outside 100, and the preparation of their children is really quite low, like above.

But if you aim at the top schools, like Hampton, LU, Highgate (or equivalent for girls' schools), it is simply not reality. If you are talking about Westminster, St Paul, Kings, SPGS, G& L etc, the extent of preparation by many parents is then at really another level.

Whatever the motive, for all prospective 11+ next year or beyond, please take note of what I said above. You do whatever preparation required according to the level of schools you are targeting.

@AC7001 Very sadly even for schools lower than 50, there is quite a bit of prep needed if they’re in SW/W London due to overwhelming competition ..

our Head was clear, if we’re aiming for Kew or Radnor we needed a minimum if 125 cat score 😐 I really don’t think there is a senior in these parts of London, you don’t need to heavily prepare for

ANd if you happen to go to interview dates for schools like King's, Westminster, St Paul (or girls' equivalent), you will see a much higher percentage of South Asians and East Asians then that in the exam date. Of course, these are not those who stupidly believe the MN's myth that you need only revising 1-2 hours a week. Those that believe never make it to the interviews.

Hats off to the state school parents - the level of commitment needed is very high there. With low level of guidance from the school and no CAT scores etc. how did you decide what schools to apply to? Do the state schools stream as well and give guidance on senior schools?
I agree with all the posters above - depending on the school targeted, there is very different levels of push needed. Everyone does what they feel is right and what their DC can bear!
@SamPoodle123 - really impressed with the wide variety of activities your DC pursues.

Both of mine were at Newton Prep and we did nothing extra - the school did it all. DS got SPS, KCS and DC, DD got Jags, PH, WH and Roedean London Schol.

But I now teach Year 6 state and use all of Newton’s resources that I sneakily scanned at Parents’ Evenings.