SW London Private & Grammar: applying for year 7 in 2023

[QuiteAJourney]

Following up from
www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4716365-sw-london-private-grammar-applying-for-year-7-in-2023-part-iii?page=40

Sharing the journey

Parents had to register but the kids didn’t didn’t have to take the exam. They said acceptance is not not automatic, based on internal assessment and heads recommendation.

Not sure why so many words duplicated!

There is a new school opening in Clapham, which could be worth looking at as a safety net.
www.northwoodschools.com/northwood-senior-lps-clapham-from-2023-/about-us/head-s-welcome

I can’t speak to g&l but at a LU open day the head said they did not care about interests and activities. Not everybody has access to tennis lessons and ballet classes and sometimes just a love of chemistry can be an interest or passion. Bottom line sounds like exam results are of primary importance.

I like to think cat scores are just a good indicator where you should apply to. I don’t think preps should send them to senior schools unless every school does it. My kids have done them every year and they change a lot every year, but the average of the 4 parts ends up roughly the same.

G&L asked about her hobbies, favourite book etc. Basically questions about her. I was surprised they didn’t ask a math question. But perhaps they don’t need to, as they know their scores. I get not everyone has access to tennis or ballet. But they can have other hobbies or interests that don’t necessarily cost a huge amount or difficult to access such as reading, music (you can love and listen to music or be self taught), bird watching, stamp collecting etc. My dd went through a phase she would make doll furniture from scraps around the house when she was year 4.

I don't have any hat in the ring now, but I did in 2019/2020. Y6 at a state primary where remote learning was, well, too remote to even see it.

I definitely didn't have the money for tutoring and was too unwell with chemo myself to help her in any meaningful way. But, what I did do was print of sample papers from Emanuel, SCHS, Manchester Grammar School, Alleyn's and a couple of others I forget. This was solely to get her used to exam conditions.

ISEB wasn't in play for the one (GDST) school that we applied to, so it was written Maths and English papers only.

She applied for a drama scholarship (didn't get it) and a bursary (got one). She is dyslexic and CAT4 was around 112 in Y4.

Hours wise - hmm not loads, I guess around 20-30 mins a day with bond books for maths, and an hour on top for exam time practise most weekends from September to January of Y6 (exam day was 1st week in Jan). Interview was around November time iirc and consisted of groups of 3/4 girls with an SLT and was a chat about a painting - what did they think the artist was aiming for, what did they think the subject was thinking sort of thing, any sports and hobbies etc. about 30 mins.

She is NOT the smartest in her year by a long shot, but she is engaging and works hard. Expected GCSE grades between 6 and 9 for eg.

Is now a county player in her chosen sport, but was not at that level aged 10/11.

Offer received on offers day.

I don't doubt that things are definitely more difficult even a couple or 3 years on, which I find so sad for the children, but I wouldn't do anything differently I don't think. My feelings were and are, that if I'd had to heavily tutor her for a place, then perhaps that school wasn't for her as I simply wouldn't have had the funds to support ongoing tutoring.

I appreciate how very very fortunate she is to have her bursary, but I am also realising that she has not found her stride academically until now, in Y9, which is why this all seems so hard to read that some children are being put through so much. Hey, they might enjoy it, and that's fine, but I just wonder if the collective parents of SW London have created a self perpetuating steam train of tutoring that can't stop.

I know parents whose children were tutored heavily for 11+ and are still tutored now - I can't see how this is good. My DD does around 12 hours of external sport each week, which she loves, and generally has an hour-90 mins of h/work a day max and even that isn't a constant. Sometimes it's much less, occasionally more.

I don't even know what my point is really! Other than we don't all embark on this in the same way. If someone wants to say their child has 1-2 hrs of tutoring time per day, that's their lookout, but that does NOT mean everyone does this and also does not mean that those of us who do far far less are lying.

I wish all of your children the very best of luck for offer day, there is a place for everyone eventually (though I know the fear!), and as clichéd as it is, the right school for the right child really is a thing.

Hopefully you will not need any safely net.... but in case...

In addition to Northwood Senior, maybe worth exploring Park School (which will be headed by Susie Longstaff, ex-HM of PHS). I think it is Clapham based.
There is also Hall School in Wimbledon.

Another option is to find a prep that goes to 13, and your DC could take the 13+.

"It is okay, we understand" - 11+ is not just a race for kids, but also the parents.

If DCs get to the school they like and deserved, I'm sure the mums doesn't mind labelled as whatever species.

Northwood Senior School is becoming London Park School from September 2023.

"what I did do was print of sample papers from Emanuel, SCHS, Manchester Grammar School, Alleyn's and a couple of others I forget"

The future parents for 2024 entry, these are good practice papers to prepare open format Exams, but be aware each sample paper will take 1 hour to finish, then you need additional 30 mins to go through with your DCs.

I was not aware. Useful information for @knopka and others.

What I didn't do is go through them every time. It was more of a time test really. Yes, if there were glaring issues that she flagged to me we would look at those, but as she was at a state school, she'd had no experience of formal exams (apart from CAT4 in Y4), so she really needed to understand how much time to allocate and only she could learn that. We had no assistance from her primary, and only 3 children (all girls) applied for private schools. 2 received and took offers. Iirc the other girl with an offer tried for 2 schools and had offers from both.

@Jibberty from what you described, you did 3+ hours at minimal per week for your DD. I'm sure this is a non academic pushing GDST.

Even that is 3 years ago, it won't work for top grammar or superselective private I'm afraid that is all.

"if I'd had to heavily tutor her for a place, then perhaps that school wasn't for her" - if 7 hours per week is heavy for you vs 3+ hours you did , you should tell this to all SW feeders prep school to GL or SPGS.

@PreplexJ there will be some people who do indeed get into the most selective schools on minimal prep. There are some terrifying bright children out there in both state and private sectors, who just need a bit of prep on exam technique.

Most won’t, of course. But many people do not believe that that large amounts of prep is the right thing to do for their child - in other words, they, are less invested in the prestige value of the school. I am wondering whether we are just all having some huge cultural misunderstanding here as to the value of a school name.

and spare me the “non academic” snark about GDST schools. These schools get amazing results from a slightly wider spread on entry. Put the St Paul’s cohort in the Hall and of course you will get better results.

@PreplexJ Your insistence on denying everyone else's experience - and that your way of prepping your child for the 11+ is the only way - is getting a bit out of control.

The fact is, you don't know everyone who has sat for the 11+. Perhaps it's true that a few people you know did similar levels of prep to you. But you can't extrapolate that out to grand generalisations that everyone is doing it or that it's the only way to secure an offer for a top school.

Lots of people on here are sharing other perspectives and alternative views, including from their own experience. And yet at every turn you're either undermining what they're saying or accusing them of not telling the truth, and maintaining your insistence that your way is the only way.

Can't you just accept that you did it the way you thought was best for your child - I'm sure that's what everyone on here is doing - but that other people have achieved results doing it a different way. You don't need to keep undermining and denying other people's experiences just to validate your own.

Sorry but it's one of the top 3 GDST schools. I don't think 3 hours time management practise can be considered to be heavy tutoring really. And it was her doing it, not me. I was mostly to be found throwing up or lying on the sofa during that time!

All I'm saying is that wild claims that everyone who isn't admitting to 1-2 hrs a day for 1-2 years must be lying is simply not the case. I know some are doing that and I know how brow beaten their children are.

FTR - I know one of DD's best friends received an offer from SPGS, and accepted it. She wasn't tutored at all, but was at a prep school. She is simply super smart and that's it. Another friend didn't receive an offer from SPGS, but scholarship offers from GL, WHS, PHS and Epsom. Also not tutored apart being at a prep school.

“Most won’t, of course. But many people do not believe that that large amounts of prep is the right thing to do for their child - in other words, they, are less invested in the prestige value of the school. ”

Forthcoming parents, prep what you think it is appropriate according to your target school. And think about if your kid is "most cases".

@PreplexJ - do you run a tutoring agency or something?

"I don't think 3 hours time management practise can be considered to be heavy tutoring really. And it was her doing it, not me."

I don't do practice paper for my DCs either. She did herself.

Do you have a kids prepping for next year? Want my advice to help?

@LondonMum20222

"The fact is, you don't know everyone who has sat for the 11+. Perhaps it's true that a few people you know did similar levels of prep to you. "
And you don't either, so feel free to disagree.

Absolutely spot on.
Let's respectfully share our own experiences. We are all trying to do the best by our DC and we are going about it in different ways because or DCs, preferences and circumstances are different.
Generalisations and/or judgemental statements (and, of course, accusations of lying) take us nowhere - apart from down a confrontational path.

I am disagreeing, clearly. But you're now being aggressive with everyone who has a different opinion to you. Just drop it.

@LondonMum20222 it is okay, I understand.

Will continue share more on my first hand experience and opinions in the thread rather than debating with some mums on what counts as tutor and is it 1-2 hours per week vs 1-2 hours per day.

Good luck for the parents doing the prep already in the thread for the coming years.