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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Child working at "expected" ; anyone's DC working at expected pass the 11plus?

112 replies

TheRubyRedshoes · 04/01/2023 19:14

Just wondering if it's a huge gap to bridge?
She was struggling at school but is now coming on at pace. Her sister was working at greater depth however expected at maths and passed with minimal support bar some mock Tests from me

Her sister is working at expected and would get more help...or have peoples DC failed even with help?
Thank you

OP posts:

Hollyhead · 04/01/2023 19:17

I imagine it will depend on whether it’s an area with a small number or large number of grammar places. Also depends on which subject - I’d have thought greater depth in reading, but the greater depth expectations for writing are really very exceptional in my opinion - basically you can write to a standard that would be acceptable as an adult! Not sure on maths.

Original poster

TheRubyRedshoes · 04/01/2023 19:22

Unfortunately she's not a reader.
She didn't do much learning for many years, we think perhaps dyslexia and her eyes have some issues.

We ditched phonics and got her reading, and she's been flying along but whether she has hit her peak ( at this level of study)Is not so clear...

She's happy to learn new words though.

OP posts:

Original poster

TheRubyRedshoes · 04/01/2023 19:23

It's not super selection she needs 121.

OP posts:

redskydelight · 04/01/2023 19:28

how old is she? If (say) Y3, a lot of children (particularly younger ones) can really suddenly improve.

Working at expected also covers a wide range. You'd probably need a more nuanced view as to what end of the range she was at.

Original poster

TheRubyRedshoes · 04/01/2023 19:56

Year 5. Probably mid range to lower. However she's come along way in a relatively short space of time. She pretty much did little learning until lock down!

OP posts:

Nevermindthesquirrels · 04/01/2023 20:13

I guess you can register her and see how she gets on?

Ibouncetothebeat · 04/01/2023 20:28

Get her an 11+ tutor. With enough drilling most children can be taught to pass the test.

Kpo58 · 04/01/2023 20:40

I think that the bigger question here is would she be able to cope in a school which you need to pass the 11+ for? If not, then I wouldn't be thinking about letting her take it.

modgepodge · 04/01/2023 20:42

Honestly it doesn’t sound like she’s cut out for grammar school. I teach y5/6 in a prep and the ones working at expected don’t pass. 100 is ‘National average’ on that sort of test so 121 is well above that. If she’s had a lot of support to get her to expected too it sounds like she might struggle. Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear.

Athenen0ctua · 04/01/2023 20:48

DS only arrived in time for the late grammar test and SATs. Was accepted into a grammar that had no distance criteria, all in the 'expected' range for SATs.

Original poster

TheRubyRedshoes · 04/01/2023 20:56

@modgepodge

I'm open to hear all experiences.
It's so hard to tell this is the problem!
She's not taken sats yet just class lesson's putting her at expected.

I wouldn't say it's taken that much to get her to expected though, just some tweaks to how she learns.

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SaintLoy · 04/01/2023 21:06

Ibouncetothebeat · 04/01/2023 20:28

Get her an 11+ tutor. With enough drilling most children can be taught to pass the test.

My dad drilled me very thoroughly to get me through the 11 Plus. As a result I got into Alleyns on a free place and then that is where it all fell apart. No confidence. Thanks, Dad. Not spoken to him for years. I would have passed the 11 Plus on my head without Dad's drill book and the extra homework he set me very weekend from the book.

Delatron · 04/01/2023 21:08

My child was exceeding and didn’t pass. That was with tutoring. It depends on the year and the cohort I guess. I wouldn’t assume ‘expected’ in all areas would pass. Unless she makes massive improvements- and would grammar school be right for her? Many thrive under the pressure and competition but lots don’t. You can go from being in the top set in primary maths to the bottom set in grammar- and everything that does to confidence…

I definitely think there is more focus on the verbal and reading side. The few that passed in DS’s year were big readers. The vocab side is hugely important.

But they do also need to be able to do Yr6 maths in Yr5.

MolesOnPoles · 04/01/2023 21:14

In the grammar area I know best all the children with a hope of passing are drilled from year 4 or 5. It’s really not a case of cram hard enough and you’ll do it because everyone is doing the same.

You have to be relentless in the practice and bright and lucky.

Shit system.

I know other areas are different though.

pastypirate · 04/01/2023 21:21

V similar situation with dd2 who is also year. 5. We are already tutoring. Dd1 was exceeding in everything and scored very high at 11+ and got her first choice. She fits right in at grammar. Dd2 has been steadfast expected but her teacher was clear that since she met all her milestones there was no reason not to put her in for 11+.
Tutor is saying she is slower in learning that dd1 but doing ok. I can't predict the outcome but if she doesn't do so well in the mock we will probably not do the exam and look at other options.

Pinkyxx · 04/01/2023 21:28

My daughter did the 11plus a few years ago. She was exceeding in English, working at for Maths. I did not tutor her at all and was prepared for her to not get any offers. She had a practice book I got from WHSmiths and that was it. While I never got her results she was offered places by 3 schools. Interestingly she recently did the MIDYIS (which I'm told is an aptitude test), results of which placed her in the to 10% of all students.

Moral of the tale being don't take any one 'assessment' as absolute. It's always worth giving it a try!

WaitingOutside · 04/01/2023 21:46

I had a tutor to pass the 11+ many (many) years ago. I had a high reading age and was top set maths but I needed help practising the non-verbal reasoning on the exam. I found primary school very easy.

I would say that I went from being top of the class at primary to being bottom third of a grammar school. It was hard and I struggled. I had an excellent secondary education which I'm very grateful for but it hugely knocked my confidence. Of course, saying what school I went to does have a bit of a boast to it, but my A-level grades in particular would have been significantly better had I gone elsewhere; with less pressure, slower pace and giving me more confidence.

My daughter was expected in primary, slightly above in Maths but had a lower reading age. We didn't put her for selective entry and she's doing really well at a good non-selective. She enjoys being near the top of the class and getting good marks in tests, those things boost her confidence. At the end of the day, it's not what school she goes to, but that she's confident and happy.

DoofusMyDog · 04/01/2023 22:39

I would chose the better school and have dc do the best they can there. I personally think it's a good experience not to be best or top but to keep working away and be surrounded by bright students who want to learn. I went to a grammar school and was middle of the road there in many subjects but I did well in my A levels. Decades later I realise I am better educated than many around me and that's due to my schooling. For me, it made me more aspirational.

Original poster

TheRubyRedshoes · 05/01/2023 07:17

@DoofusMyDog

My older has come from top set maths to middle set and she's still in a grammar top set ,it just moves at better pace and she is still on course for a 9.

We are going to book her in for some tutoring and see how she goes and it will give her a learning boost if nothing else.
It's hard to know really because so many DC are relentlessly tutored.

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Passpass · 05/01/2023 07:29

Name changed as possibly outing. My child was expecting right through and even below at some points. He also had other issues. He got up to exceeding in maths at y5. He passed and is an August baby. Group tuition, mock tests, one to one a couple of times a week with parents, times tables and spelling practice on the school run. He was friends with all the ‘grammar kids’ in his class. Older brother passed so the expectation was there. He’s now flying in y6 as the age gap is closing between him and his peers and developmentally he’s caught up.

Original poster

TheRubyRedshoes · 05/01/2023 07:40

@Passpass thank you.

Her times tables and division are excellent in my view!
I had some old flash cards left over and she gets them instantly, ironically she's still below her current schools target by a few!

It's pretty much instant recall and I showed her some cube nets a few weeks ago and with no explanation she was able to work out what she needed to do.
I also showed her some of the wordy 11plus books eg missing word's, word's in order and again inspite of being a poor reader she was reasonably good at all that.

I'm not confident on maths word problems but...if she is shown what's needed then maybe she would be ok.

I wasn't going to touch it with a barge pole but she was asking me what it was all about as she knows some friend are doing it.
So I showed her some of her sisters old books, and that's when I felt heartened that maybe she's got a chance.

OP posts:

Original poster

TheRubyRedshoes · 05/01/2023 07:43

@Passpass that's really heartening.

The only issue in my dd case is she's actually one of the eldest in years so her score would be changed. But she's been behind for most of her school life which isn't fair!

There is no Sen provision in 11 plus.

OP posts:

Zonder · 05/01/2023 07:47

Kpo58 · 04/01/2023 20:40

I think that the bigger question here is would she be able to cope in a school which you need to pass the 11+ for? If not, then I wouldn't be thinking about letting her take it.

This.

Do some extra work if you like and your child is ok with that, and see what happens. But don't push and push at the risk of stripping her of confidence and scraping her into a school where she is out of her depth.

Tessisme · 05/01/2023 07:49

Ibouncetothebeat · 04/01/2023 20:28

Get her an 11+ tutor. With enough drilling most children can be taught to pass the test.

I'm in NI where we still have the grammar system. The 11plus was abolished a few years ago, but nothing was put in its place due to massive opposition from the grammar schools and from parents, so we now have transfer tests. They are not compulsory (in fact they aren't even 'official') but huge numbers of children do them every year, including my eldest 3 years ago. Here, the children are given practice papers to do in P6/P7. What I would say is be careful about tutoring. If your child needs intensive tutoring to get a place in grammar school, it may not be for them. If it was me, I would buy some practice tests or a book with 11plus style questions and see how she copes with the actual content. Personally, I feel tutoring is for children who are doing well academically, but need guidance with exam technique and timing, or need to brush up in certain areas. A lot of parents shove their children through the transfer test using tutors (big business here) and discover they can't cope in the grammar school environment. There's a lot of chat and exchange of information on social media and just generally as it's a huge thing.

America12 · 05/01/2023 07:53

Kpo58 · 04/01/2023 20:40

I think that the bigger question here is would she be able to cope in a school which you need to pass the 11+ for? If not, then I wouldn't be thinking about letting her take it.

Absolutely, what is the problem if she doesn't pass ?

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