Child working at "expected" ; anyone's DC working at expected pass the 11plus?

[TheRubyRedshoes]

Just wondering if it's a huge gap to bridge?
She was struggling at school but is now coming on at pace. Her sister was working at greater depth however expected at maths and passed with minimal support bar some mock Tests from me

Her sister is working at expected and would get more help...or have peoples DC failed even with help?
Thank you

”Expected” means “average”. Most people are average, that’s literally what it means. If she’s average, that isn’t bad.

Not in a school grading sense it doesn't. It represents a wide range of children.

@TheRubyRedshoes - where abouts are you? Does she need to just pass, or does she need to be in the top X % of children who take the exam? It does make a difference

@modgepodge @TheRubyRedshoes thanks for the feedback. We just got to the next round for Godolphin, so I am pleased :) I was so worried, as I had no idea if she would make it to next round. Now, the stress of interviews...

Be very careful that you match school to child in this situation very realistically.

I went to a super-selective grammar and I am hyperlexic with no SpLds so have a pretty good idea on how it works. My DD has pretty severe dyslexia (picked up by school in Y2 and formally diagnosed as soon as the EP said she was old enough to test properly).

She would almost certainly have failed SATS appallingly badly. She scores high enough in NVR and VR tests to be in top sets at secondary and have stellar predictions for GCSE. I then have to hop around reminding the staff that she has a SpLd and that we might need to ensure predictions/targets are realistic no matter how high her CAT scores are.

We decided to pull her out of sitting for academically selective schools as the chances were that she would have been unhappy and struggled with the pace and been consistently bottom of the class, which is not good for any child. I

@TheRubyRedshoes GSs won't be put off by a spiky profile because they will pride themselves on being able to get your DD2 to the top of the spike! Also, the rest of the information you have given us about her – sudden rapid improvement, able to pick things up quickly – make her sound like the sort of DC most GSs would enjoy teaching. Except for the super-bright, the 11+ is always a bit of a lottery but I think you should definitely encourage her to try.

When DS started at GS (a good few years ago now!), the first thing the school did was give all the parents a presentation, with stats and graphs, showing how the 11+ score had very little correlation with GCSE results 5 years later. Because some DCs had already peaked while others were just getting started, and educational achievement is rarely linear, all children have peaks and troughs.

There are some slightly odd perceptions on here. Plenty of preps have Dc who won’t be passing the Bucks 11 plus. They are not set up as crammers. Other schools are. Neither do all schools get 25% through. Some pretty decent schools get very varied results year on year. The southern part of the county has more passing than the north. Heads don’t discuss grammar possibilities with parents. They just administer the test.

It’s important not to get obsessive about the 11 plus. In Bucks, you can pull out of it. Most secondary schools are fine for the dc that go to them. They can transfer at 6th form. It’s not the end of any world not to go to a grammar. In the ops case, get a tutor now. Exams are in September on two days!!

Also worth considering that other than year 6 there are no national standards for expecting or greater depth, some schools are harsher markers than others. My DS was expecting all the way through primary even into year 6 but got GD in all his SATs. Like you I instinctively knew he was brighter than his results suggested. No grammars here but I would have entered him if I could, especially as learning is never wasted. He goes to a top 10 comprehensive and predicted very high GCSE grades, some kids just need a little more time. Good luck

Our head very much discussed whether she thought our son should appeal or not. They had a scoring system for all children based on their suitability for grammar school and spent the whole day speaking to parents after the result. Nothing done before obviously as they’re not allowed to teach for the 11+. Private schools can - no they don’t all pass by any means but there’s an advantage for sure.

Agree, best not to get caught up in the whole thing. I wish I hadn’t! Very stressful year. The local secondary where DS is is fantastic and he’s thriving. He can look at grammar again for 6th form but since he’s so happy where he is I doubt he will.

Results vary massively by school and by year.

He can look at grammar again for 6th form but since he’s so happy where he is I doubt he will.

DD2 was in this position, comfortably got the grades to switch to GS for sixth form(where a good friend of hers had just been appointed head girl) but in the event she decided to stay and take A levels at the secondary modern where she had been for the previous 5 years. The GS couldn't compute it at all!

Just a point to chuck in about SEN. Do apply for reasonable adjustments, they do grant it, I'm a different area but after applying and providing our evidence we were granted (by an external panel ) everything we asked for. Shortly before the test we were then phoned by the grammar to arrange everything for the day and they bent over backwards to ensure my DC was comfortable and had everything needed. I absolutely can't fault them. I won't know until March if he has a place but one thing I am entirely comfortable with is that the adjustments gave him an equal chance on the day so if he doesn't get in, then it isn't meant to be and no hard feelings. He actually enjoyed the experience! Have a look on the SEN topics on 11+ board.

He is doing well but doesn't start secondary until this coming September.

We read as in I sit with him and we each read a page aloud. It helps to model how to read a sentence. Others have also said even listen to an audio book can help. Have you tried audio books with her?

This is the concern we had. DW went to grammar, sounds like a similar experience as you. DD2 decided she wanted to sit and got through, subject to national offer day. We still worry if she will thrive in the competitive environment, or if she would have been better off in a stare school where she might have been top sets.

If you think she has dyslexia, why don’t you get her assessed to see if she qualifies for extra time? Having said that, we did not enter my dyslexic daughter for the 11+, as she would not have passed and the pace of learning at that stage of her education would have been too fast; however, she got into our local super selective grammar school for sixth form and loved it. I find that some dyslexic children are a “slow burn“ and need time to develop strategies for learning before they get into their stride and show their potential.

@Michaelmonstera
.she's definitely been a slow burn so far.

The aseement was about 800 if not more..we also had behaviour optomitry which was 300 and the treatment was 600 plus and her actual tutor who specialises in Sen was 40 and math 40 per week.

In short that's all our money and non for fun development stuff.
She wants to try piano and other stuff. Where does one draw fhe line.

I myself moved to a different place for 6 form and i had awful home trauma at the time. Looking back I don't know how I did anything as I had no support.
Ironically it was also a grammar and they did try and help me but I pushed them away.
But I had trauma and no friends and I didn't really study.
Ideally I would want DC in the same school for the 6rh form.

@Delatron
Appeals are different. I meant Bucks heads don’t discuss what Dc will/won’t pass with parents before the exams. All school info to parents is based on national curriculum not 11 plus suitability. Also, in Bucks you generally pull out if you don’t want Dc to take the exams. My neighbours never put down a grammar as a preference but their Dc still took the 11 plus! Just pull out if it’s not for you. Depending where op lives, there are very decent alternatives. Many better than a good many comprehensives.

@Unsuredad123

It depends on the child but which set is a false economy.

Eg first DD started off in a comp because it was " extremely good". 3 or 4 maths set's.

Top set, she wasn't getting it?
I said let's move her Down? But next set down had pupil's who could not get all their tables or prime Numbers. When I said ...let's move her down because they were talking like she doesn't get it....they said she's in the top half of the top set 🤔.
That was it.

In her grammar there are sóoooo many maths set's!

The top set is highest and will finish or have already finished the GCSE sllyabus? Then another two or three sets also fast moving.
She was in one of these.
She's been moved down to 4th or 5th.
Her target has gone up to 9.

She's extremely happy because she's getting it. A pupil working at any top set level shouldn't be worried. In her comp she was! There was no room for slower at her pace.

At the grammar there has been far greater scope for her to be in a set that suits her and hell.... aiming for a 9?? Why would it bother her to be in top half of her comp that's not suiting her or... aiming for the same grade at a much better pace?

That's what I have found so far is that there's more room for manoeuvre but getting the same high marks... her English has always been outstanding but again she's gone down to 2nd set down. Her teacher was still singing her praises to the high heaven's.

But she s at the pace which suits her.

This has been the most eye opening thing about her experience compared to the comp so far.

@Raindancer411 .. thank you.

For my dd she wants to know the end. It's the slow pace of reading.
She knows how sentences should be but just won't read for fun.

She's read 1.8 books since September.

I'd tread very carefully. Friends whose DC were at expected and went through the 11+ process regretted it. DC didn't pass and not only felt as if they had failed but were also incredibly angry that they had worked so hard for nothing, it goes against everything else we teach kids that effort = reward. Now a few years later all these children are settled in non Grammar schools and all the parents wish they'd never gone through the test in the first place. These kids were tutored btw.

@TizerorFizz amazingly in one week we have managed to get one. I'm amazed.

But they will only take her on short term basis which I understand because they weren't able to test her prior to joining.

But I don't think a few lessons will be enough to see her aptitude.

I reckon she would need to Easter and if she's not getting it in general by then, will would quietly drop it.
But I don't know if we can get her lesson's for that long.

Are there intensive courses at Easter and maybe over the summer? Is it VR she doesn’t get? If so, look at the Susan Doughtrey books and resources. However you need to be aware that tutoring cannot replace vocabulary gained from reading and conversation.

@TheRubyRedshoes that's a far more reasoned answer than I have had previously.

depends what OP means by '11+' but it's not unheard of for some schools to award y7 places by putting a high, sometimes very high, weight on VR/NVR. it's by no means unheard of for some kids to, for whatever reason, be a fair bit stronger (or weaker, of course) in reasoning than in the curriculum.

My daughter was below expectations in writing at the end of year 5 (after county moderators moved a number of children’s marks down, all year the school had said she was at the expected level in all areas). We’re in Bucks. She’s younger in the year, seems pretty bright, only started reading more for pleasure 6 mths ago. She passed her 11plus, was tutored but lighter amount than the hot house tutors who set daily homework including an hour a day for 5 weeks over the summer! My daughter was keen to do less than this so she didn’t pass due up too much tutoring! We did 2x10 minute CGP tests most days (eg 4-5 days a week) for 4 weeks of the summer holidays in the various subjects for Bucks.

My older child had tutoring too that set more homework, he’s a strong reader and shows real ability in comprehension and writing but failed it by miles!!

I don't suppose if anyone knows if it's a normal birth year? I know 2007 was a boom year. Is 2012 a boom year?

Guzzy l can't understand that mentality that extra work was for nothing I see all extra learning as valuable.
If nothing else it will be a good booster for comprehension skills and maths, a good foundation on alegerba!

But obviously not passing is an undoubted hill to get over.
That's the risk.
I guess if this tutor school does mock tests and she's really far off then we won't put her in.

@TheRubyRedshoes
So are you Bucks or not? All Bucks Dc take the test unless you pull out.