Compulsory maths for all students in England till they're 18

[noblegiraffe]

Says the front page of the Telegraph. Sunak's new big plan.

It's not going to happen, they know it won't happen, and they were told it couldn't happen in 2017 when they read Prof Smith's review into post-16 maths education that they commissioned.

We haven't got enough maths teachers, this is just bullshit posturing. Fret ye not.

What's the point anyway? I did maths to 16 got to the last thing on the syllabus (calculus) and gave up. I wanted to study Classics and History (and did) and after uni did accountancy and never needed half of the maths I studied up to 16. If I'd been able to I'd have loved to have studied a 4th subject - music/re or English Lit but there is absolutely no point in forcing 16-18 year olds who are already bored and fed up with Maths to do more of the same. It would be far bettter to make them all study how to write in comprehensible and grammatically correct English so perhaps compulsory English Language to 18 instead?

Just teach it well to 16 ffs. Primary schools have a lot to answer for. There is one on my bus route, who have a giant banner announcing places for 2 year old children. The grammar, holy batman the grammar. Not surprising really.

FFS, just more bullshit. Schools are laying off staff, teacher training shortages, budgets are pathetic.

Where will these magic maths teachers come from?

They significantly reduced the recruitment target for trainee maths teachers too (presumably to make it look like they weren't missing the target so badly), so yeah, forward planning.

So they would fund a degree for those who had finished maths and further maths A Levels at 14 hmm?

I doubt there are many of those, and they would be presumably studying maths in some way anyway so be covered.

Interesting blog by Rob Eastaway about how the numbers leaving school with at least one post-16 maths qualifications has barely moved (or possibly dropped) since 2015, despite the introduction of Core Maths which was supposed to open up post-16 maths to the group who passed maths GCSE but weren't good enough to take maths A-level or who didn't want to take it but needed some maths to support their science/social science A-levels.

And the reason for that is the plummeting numbers of students taking Maths AS. At most schools now instead of starting 4 A-levels and dropping one after Y12, you start with 3 and carry them all through. We've lost all those kids who were taking maths as their 4th.

Thanks, Gove.

robeastaway.com/blog/maths-disgrace

I’m not sure what he wants to achieve… wouldn’t it be better to support pre-16 and adult education in maths and maybe have a totally online course to functional skills + gcse? So if people need to learn maths for their job, they have the resources to do it.

Thanks.

So tired of these fucking clowns

But they would have to fund it if it's compulsory surely

Fucking idiot, completely out of touch with the real world.

Most people don't need maths beyond GCSE.

Those who leave at 16 to pursue vocational subjects such as a trade don't need to stay on and IME it is completely counterproductive as many of those actually are keen to work and are ready to leave school to pursue their career almost by the time they finish year 10.

Depends. Making the poor sods resit and fail GCSE Maths every year for another four years - bad idea; properly funded, properly taught Functional Skills, with students allocated to the right level for them and timetabled adequate hours - good idea.

Study of maths is currently compulsory for those who fail maths GCSE.

It not actually compulsory, it is a condition of sixth form funding. If a sixth form/college wants to get funding for a pupil who failed maths to study A-levels or BTECS, they need to put on a couple of maths classes a week for them, the quality of which varies.

It would be cheaper for a sixth form to forfeit sixth form funding for the pupil who took FM A-level at 14 than to put special classes on for them to meet the maths requirement.

The tory magic money tree of bullshit

Why would they need a special class... Just put them in with the rest

I'm in favour of properly funded functional skills for adults (see my name...) it works out at around minimum wage on a zero hour contract at the moment....

And yes they're just doing it for the headlines - a real problem keeping any teachers in school, never mind maths teachers. I have no idea what their actual end game is. (Well I have fears it is the teach by numbers /body in classrooms while the teacher is paid to design resources for the MAT....)

The rest of the kids who sat FM at 14??

If you're talking about taking the kid out of the state school system, then this would be irrelevant.

I have no idea what their actual end game is.

Here it's to get Rishi talking about a big vision for his premiership that isn't just dealing with strikes and people dying in hospital car parks while trying to make it to 2024 for a general election.

That's their only game here.

It’s entirely unnecessary. Employers don’t need (unless it’s a job that requires a maths/science degree anyway) employees who can do complex maths. They need numerate employees. It’s ineffective maths teaching at primary school that’s the issue. As an ex primary school teacher, in many junior classes there were children who didn’t understand basic place value or the value of numbers. We need to go slower in the primary curriculum. I say that as a parent of children who love maths and find ridiculously easy.
Going slower with the basics is now happening in most schools with more use of a mastery curriculum. We haven’t yet seemed to have dropped the 101 different ways to solve simple problems but I’m sure it’s next for the chop.
Invest in primary maths and we won’t have a load of muddled up teenagers who keep being taught ever more complex concepts on top of shaky foundations.

What utter nonsense. I studied maths till I was 16, received a GCSE level qualification and now have two masters degrees. It’s unrealistic and unnecessary

The idea itself is reasonable, particularly in terms of growing the economy. Most OECD countries have compulsory maths education till 18, and there is a clear link between post-16 maths study at any level and future earnings (including passing a GCSE maths resit).

It's the implementation that's the problem. 12 years of underfunding has not left us in a good place for expanding provision.

But why? I studied Maths at A-level, I can't recall a single thing 30 years later. Yes I use Maths in my day-to-day work but it's mainly basic formula taught in KS2 and KS3. I don't envision masses of kids needing to know vectors to get by, as long as they know their way round a computer and can pick up excel and other programmes.

Forget about lessons for lessons sake, our 16 year olds should be taught how to compose a formal email, a basic understanding of contract law, budgeting. Life skills.

The rest of the people doing degree

But why?

If you study maths A-level, you can go into STEM jobs, which are among the best paid and for which there are massive shortages of qualified applicants. Hence the link to the economy and future earnings.

Or you could become a maths teacher...massive shortage of those too, but nowhere near as good pay.

Yes, like I said, if your kid is no longer in a state school this won't apply to them.