Removing charitable status for independent schools

[justanotherdaduser]

What do people here think of Labour policy of removing charitable status for private schools?

I am conflicted about it.

DD goes to a London independent and if in three years or so fees rise by 20%, it will not be easy for us.

But that's just our personal circumstances, and while I will be unhappy if fees go up by 20%, I can also see the point Labour is making -

that the school our DD goes to and hundreds of others like it are not really a charity. Most spend no more than 10% of their fee income on bursaries, if that. Vast majority of parents who send children there are comfortably above national average income. The charitable status is an anomaly and independent schools don't deserve tax breaks reserved for charities.

So was wondering how others feel about it.

(Applogies if this is not the right forum. I am mostly a lurker here and wasn't sure what's the best place to post this. Happy to move this somewhere more appropriate if required)

Schools could offer more bursaries or reduce their fees. We don't subsidise other providers of luxury goods because the slightly less wealthy are feeling the pinch.

I support the addition of VAT to school fees, for the reasons Michael Gove (Conservative) outlined in his article.

morph22010 it’s a mainstream independent charity but with good pastoral care. I think most of the special SEN schools round here need an EHCP so without an EHCP I was offered a huge mainstream with 200 students in each year or a private with 50 students a year. The state school was amazing, had great facilities and I met some very inspiring teachers but dd would’ve been overwhelmed by the size.

But they do offer charitable services....

Nah. So many small ones are so close to the edge. They will close. We can’t afford higher fees. We would go into the state system immediately.

A lot of these private schools are owned by very profitable companies, that could easily absorb an adjustment in the fees to partly absorb the vat and then future parents will just get used to it. Let's face it private school fees have gone up massively over the past 20 years and are as popular as ever.

Last thing- many of these schools do not have huge reserves. Three independent school in my county have closed in the last 5 years, another is unpopular with staff as it can no longer afford to be part of the teachers pension scheme. These schools do contribute to the economy- employing teachers but also cleaners, groundsmen, cooks, payroll assistants, IT support, peripatetic music teachers etc. Making the fees higher, whilst not benefiting the school will have knock on affects. This policy is about labour trying to destroy the private sector, as the Tories did to the mines. It isn't going to be pretty.

The small independents could become academies within the state sector. No need to close.

Oh yes I agree - the Daily Mail front page was a dream for Labour - do the Mail think that all their readers want continued tax subsidies for private schools? Only 7% of children go to private schools. Latest polling shows only 10% of the public are fully in support of the tax subsidy - and almost all of those people will be confirmed Tory voters already.

This policy will have been focus-grouped extensively and will be well-received in the Red Wall presumably.

Wouldn't they just cut back on activities/staff, as state schools are required to do when budgets change?

I don't understand why state schools have to cut their cloth accordingly, but independents feel entitled to be propped up.

I cannot understand why so many people are obsessed with destroying the independent school system. Perhaps if they concentrated on the 94% of children in the state system rather than on the 6% in independent education, the state system would improve. Rather than saying “it’s not fair”, do something to make the state system better. Improve the state system. Don’t drag the independent sector down just because “it’s not fair”. State education spending in the UK is around £100bn. The Labour Party think that adding VAT to independent schools will raise £1.7bn (even that’s questionable). Assuming every single penny is spent on the state system (unlikely) is a 1.7% increase in funding going to address the problems in the state system and make it world class? Of course it isn’t.

Removing charitable status wouldn't "destroy the independent sector". They are businesses, it's bizarre that even the ones like Eton are charities.

But even if 100 close, there's others that won't and would be affordable.

I think people are conflating private schools with independent schools.

Totally, for some. Our DC are at one of the ones on the lower fee end (£12k p/y). We will pull them out if VAT is added. We are lucky that we will be able to move to a better catchment than the one we live in now. It’s just how things will be for many families and no one expects sympathy or even understanding. It’s okay.

This is hilarious

The whole point of the policy is intended to improve the state sector - by diverting the subsidy to state.

That’s my point. Even if every single penny of the apparent gains are put towards the state system, it won’t make much difference. It’s a tiny percentage of the overall state education spending. It’s going to take a lot more than that. People are deluded if they think that adding VAT to school fees is going to dramatically improve the state system.

@Hobbi well I see what you are saying in that many consider it a necessity but it is a choice. You could get a grandparent or one parent to cover the childcare. It's not ideal, but it's not compulsory to send your child to nursery in the way that school is. Actually, school isn't compulsory either- you can chose to homeschool or state school or private.

There is absolutely nothing that would be diverted to the state. In Labour's ideal world, all private schools should close, so those 7% privately educated would need FREE state places, these would need to be funded by taxes. The government would actually need to SPEND MORE while there would be less invested for each pupil in the state system. People who think there is money they can somehow take away and divert to state schools by abolishing private schools have zero understanding of the economics.

Education is a charitable purpose in its own right. A well-educated population benefits society as a whole.

Attention needs to be on pushing bad schools up, rather than dragging good schools down.

I fully support it. I would like to see the end of private schools. I think it would be much better if all those well motivated children and parents were in the state system - I think it would level the playing field for all.

The best way to push bad schools up would be for the well motivated and rich children to be in those state schools. The overall standards of schools and education would be raised rather than it being raised for just a rich few.

Private schools are not charities and fees should attract VAT. It's about fairness
Sam Freedman wrote a very good article in the New Statesman about why the figures bandies about by the independent schools about schools going bust are nonsense.

And higher earnings meaning they can buy the properties in the good state catchment areas further driving up prices for homes

It’s not about raising money for the state. It’s about the fact that private schools are not in any way a charity. They are businesses for the rich.