Removing charitable status for independent schools

[justanotherdaduser]

What do people here think of Labour policy of removing charitable status for private schools?

I am conflicted about it.

DD goes to a London independent and if in three years or so fees rise by 20%, it will not be easy for us.

But that's just our personal circumstances, and while I will be unhappy if fees go up by 20%, I can also see the point Labour is making -

that the school our DD goes to and hundreds of others like it are not really a charity. Most spend no more than 10% of their fee income on bursaries, if that. Vast majority of parents who send children there are comfortably above national average income. The charitable status is an anomaly and independent schools don't deserve tax breaks reserved for charities.

So was wondering how others feel about it.

(Applogies if this is not the right forum. I am mostly a lurker here and wasn't sure what's the best place to post this. Happy to move this somewhere more appropriate if required)

Why would they need to go anywhere? The facilities will still exist. Schools will charge VAT on fees which will be passed to HMRC. No change to school revenues and no reason to stop other groups using their facilities.

estimated that 90,000 private school pupils will enter state system if this 20% increase to fees has to be applied

Good news for the state sector:

1. The tax paid by the other 520,000 private pupils will be way more than the increased cost.

1. Lots of wealthy, skilled parents with high cultural capital will raise standards for all.

The small independent my ds goes to lets the two local primaries use its pool for swimming lessons. During covid, they looked after the key workers' DCs.
They also run the town fireworks because the council doesn't do it any more, and the local summer holiday club.

It will survive if it loses charitable status, it'll just be less accessible for the less affluent of their pupils.

DS finishes in 3 years so he'll be ok, but what a shame for others. A Destructive policy that benefits no-one.

Private school fees www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/4663721-private-school-fees

There was a relatively recent, very active thread on this topic - here's the link

Why would this stop?

Why would they? No longer charitable so no more charitable offerings required

Is there not an argument that they're saving the public purse.

There is but presumably the people who make it can't be arsed to even glance at the numbers.

Just the VAT from 2 private school kids would pay for (on average) one state place. If all the revenue from this change went to the state sector it would approach a 10% increase for school budgets.

A Destructive policy that benefits no-one.

Except the tax payers who pay subsidise this huge tax break.

Good they are not charities

Its part of the 'charitable benefit' to have contacts with other schools.

They may still rent them out for a profit

Most private schools also allow community groups to use their facilities, swimming pools, halls etc. Where will they all go?

I would be happy for the government to pay for the tiny numbers of community groups actually getting something free from private schools who get kicked out from spite and can't find a replacement.

It would be a tiny drop in the ocean of the revenue from school fees being taxed.

It’s more complicated than simply comparing two types of schools.

Charities have to provide a benefit to a reasonable section of the public and it can be argued that education, especially of children, is always a public benefit. There are thousands of charities out there with ‘education’ amongst their charitable purposes, often benefiting only very small groups of people. How would all that be unpicked?

Then you start to think about other charitable purposes - disseminating religion? Many places of worship are charities. Is that a worthwhile or reasonable charitable purpose in today’s increasingly secular society? The charity often only benefits members of that particular faith. Stately homes where a highly privileged landowner still lives in and enjoys the house? Philanthropic trusts that are used to write off tax and advance the founder’s particular pet causes?

How do we define what is a ‘good’ charity?

The more I think about it, the more unpleasant it is.

If we were actually serious about improving state education, we could raise the money by taxing, say, wealthy pensioners. Instead of going after children with fancy uniforms who annoy us

Absolutely it should be removed- or should we take the tax off first class airline flights? - saving the demand going up on economy seating.
it’s not charity, it’s an option of education, it doesn’t need tax breaks.

I think the charitable status is OUTRAGEOUS and should have been abolished long long ago.

Removing charitable status won't cause a 20% rise in fees.

VAT on fees relies on the EU rules which does not permit tax on education in nurseries, schools and universities. Since Brexit we can change that.

Charitable status is worth about £200 per pupil per term, and would readily be absorbed by parents (I think, as that's less than the variation in costs between school; and of course some will be wholly unaffected).

@AntlerRose ah, so they only pretend to have charitable tendencies?

I completely agree with this.

Yes, absolutely yes. Remove it. *

And if you don't vote for Labour expect state school ms to get worse and worse and worse. Campaign for more special needs provision if that is what you need, as I agree it's not good enough. But it will never be under this regime.

*and, categorically, they do not offer anything to local people. My son had one afternoon using our local independent's sports facilities and came back saying they were amazing. Never happened again.

The very rich and oligarchs will still send their children to public/independent schools.

Foreign and International students should be charged more and use that money to fund more bursaries.

We will have to pull our son out of his school and send him to state. We will pay for tutors instead.

I'm not entirely sure who this benefits.

Does that include the VAT they'll be able to claim back?

Charities have to provide a benefit to a reasonable section of the public and it can be argued that education, especially of children, is always a public benefit

In law, the provision of education is indeed a charitable purpose.

Simply removing that would have an adverse impact on all charities which provide education as one of their activists - they would either need to cease, or fund those activities from non-charitable sources.

There is huge potential for unintended consequences in changing the laws around charities - and I suspect that is why it has never been attempted.

Much easier to leave that be, and go for changes to VAT regime - there's even cross party support for that (review was a Tory manifesto promise in 2017, Gove speaks in favour)

The state pays for special schools. They may be independent but every single person I know who has a child at an independent special school has the fees and transport paid for by the local authority.

This isn't about special schools which are a tiny minority of the private provision in this country. It's about the rest of them which we are subsiding through our taxes.

It’s so petty. And state schools are hard to get into here. Some people pay twice - tax and fees removing from process, I don’t need it to get worse.

Oh and bursaries. That just means a tiny amount off the fees so that they can cream off the clever ones to up their exam results.