Removing charitable status for independent schools

[justanotherdaduser]

What do people here think of Labour policy of removing charitable status for private schools?

I am conflicted about it.

DD goes to a London independent and if in three years or so fees rise by 20%, it will not be easy for us.

But that's just our personal circumstances, and while I will be unhappy if fees go up by 20%, I can also see the point Labour is making -

that the school our DD goes to and hundreds of others like it are not really a charity. Most spend no more than 10% of their fee income on bursaries, if that. Vast majority of parents who send children there are comfortably above national average income. The charitable status is an anomaly and independent schools don't deserve tax breaks reserved for charities.

So was wondering how others feel about it.

(Applogies if this is not the right forum. I am mostly a lurker here and wasn't sure what's the best place to post this. Happy to move this somewhere more appropriate if required)

Yes! I'd vote for that too!

This is exactly what Labour did in 1997. The difference felt by those of us in schools was instantaneous and effect on children was evident and, indeed, the concept of lifelong learning began to flourish, ended only by the Tory's failed austerity policy. Thank you for reminding everyone how much better state education was under Labour. Well done.

I’d vote for Blair’s version of investment but not this petty dragging people down to same level

I guess what will happen is Labour will have to build more schools and extend current schools (playgrounds will get smaller but no choice) & then when, say, 20,000 spaces are created (90k kids in private sector) they can start with the VAT thing.

A better policy would be to make state schools so good that parents don't have to consider private.

This happened under the last Labour government. In my area state schools improved and the small independents saw a significant drop in numbers. The girls one became a state school and the boys became co-ed.

Over the past 10 years or so, the state schools have got worse and the independent has slightly expanded but still turns away plenty of potential students.

I’m very pro removing charitable status, but worry about what else will get caught in the VAT net. I know loads of people who struggle to pay for additional education for their kids (maths and English gcse tutoring for example) and wouldn’t want to see that made harder.

@Hobbi Wonderful! was that funded by private schools?

There have been several threads in this in the last few weeks.
It is not simple. The charity status also includes universities, youth groups and many area sports groups. Schools for disabled students too.
If the schools are forced to increase fees or charge VAT, then many people will not be able to afford the fees, some smaller schools will close and an estimated 90,000 children will be added to the state school population, the teachers would lose jobs, as will the support staff - cleaners, food staff, etc. The local businesses that supply the school will also suffer.
The approximate £104m that independent schools save annually on not paying business taxes is a drop in the ocean compared to how much it would now cost the state to educate those 90,000 students: according to government figures, it pays £6970 per pupil in the 5-16 year old group. Add 90,000 students and that's over £627 MILLION a year more. And the schools, now businesses, can reclaim VAT on expenditure which they currently cannot.
There are plenty of consequences to removing charitable status of schools, and usually one just sees just one factor reported.

Awful idea in reality. In principle, I can see why they want to float it.
The reality will be even more independents closing and children going to the underfunded state schools. Independent schools might be different to other charities but they have good intentions- to education children to a good standard. Anyone who wants to attack that has a skewed mentality. I would prefer the government to support independent schools by working with them.

Labour voter here and I think their plan is nuts if they go ahead with it. This move will damage both sectors the private and the state school sector. The ones who will suffer are the children ultimately. I don’t want my child to be in an oversubscribed classroom. I don’t want to see more SEN children without the right support. Fixing the state system will take few years to fix- done with right decisions but should not be done on the back of a system that functions fine… but you can easily cause irreversible damage to the private system in one click, leaving a struggling state system to pick up the pieces and failing miserably. Words fail me.
if Labour has a chip on their shoulder with the Etonians then they have a problem that they need to deal with it. The country certainly doesn’t revolve around Eton or the likes of them.
Their main focus should be how to support and make our state school the best choice of schools families would choose to send their children to, therefore making the need to go to private schools redundant.

Because they are non for profit and educate children. Fairly good aims all round. Some independent schools do more outreach than others and I think nearly all offer bursaries. There is a child at my DD school on full bursary because he is high attaining but also autistic. He would have failed at a state. He is allowed to be himself and thrive in his maths now.

is her school a charity? Most of the specialist independents (not all but most) aren’t run as charities as they have shareholders who take dividends out. Unfortunately Sen schools can be quite a good money maker

The provision of education is a valid charitable purpose in law

State schools have to pay vat, don't receive donations, or endowments. Private schools are businesses and should be taxed as such.

No way are they charities nor do they offer charitable services. time to pay up.

Non sequitur.

State schools can receive donations

Education is systemically unfair and to make some moves towards levelling the system is a good move.

I disagree. Wasn't introducing comprehensives meant to level the system? The places where there are still grammar schools are desirable though because the system is better. How does closing the private schools level the system? Oh yes, everyone goes down to the lowest denominator.

The places where there are still grammar schools are desirable though because the system is better.

I live in a grammar school area and the system isn’t better. There is lots of research which demonstrates that it is a little bit better for the small percentage that get to grammar but far worse for those who don’t. FWIW I attended grammar school, so I’m not biased against them. But it isn’t a better system, not by a long chalk.

The private school system perpetuates the class system, it should not be supported by vat relief when so many people in this country are struggling. It's about time private schools were assigned to the dustbin. Good education should be available to everyone not just the rich, it has no place in a modern, progressive society.

Ditto. It's touch and go as it is. And the school is full of lots of people like us, teetering on the edge of affordability, but prioritising education. Many parents realise this is a privilege and are grateful.

Why not add VAT onto nursery fees then. That would increase the average full time place by about 2k a year. I mean, sending your child to nursery is a choice, right? Don't like it, give up your job. I doubt many people would like that. And that's how I feel about it adding VAT onto something that is already a big ask. I know people who could afford larger houses and more holidays but scrimp to send their children private .

Most smaller private schools would close because the number of people able to pay 20% extra in fees is too small. All those kids would then need school places in the state system. Cost to taxpayer would be far higher. But would be good if they did a bit more community work for the tax break.

Also, and sorry I'm posting again! If they suddenly add VAT and many pupils leave in one go, will Labour have miraculously recruited more teachers and built new classrooms over the course of the summer holidays, or will the next decade be absolute chaos. I predict a rise in online homeschool if this goes ahead.

Childcare isn't a choice, especially for lower income families and single parents. Private education is a luxury item, not a donation to a charity.

It's a terrible terrible policy that punishes children. Go after quangos, water companies, energy companies if you need the cash.

Why would they automatically end up in the state system? There would be other cheaper indes to go to...