Removing charitable status for independent schools

[justanotherdaduser]

What do people here think of Labour policy of removing charitable status for private schools?

I am conflicted about it.

DD goes to a London independent and if in three years or so fees rise by 20%, it will not be easy for us.

But that's just our personal circumstances, and while I will be unhappy if fees go up by 20%, I can also see the point Labour is making -

that the school our DD goes to and hundreds of others like it are not really a charity. Most spend no more than 10% of their fee income on bursaries, if that. Vast majority of parents who send children there are comfortably above national average income. The charitable status is an anomaly and independent schools don't deserve tax breaks reserved for charities.

So was wondering how others feel about it.

(Applogies if this is not the right forum. I am mostly a lurker here and wasn't sure what's the best place to post this. Happy to move this somewhere more appropriate if required)

Can’t access the article

Yes agree they are not charitids

* charities

@User11010866 mist if the kids in current state schools are also from hard working families so your point is mute really

“hard working”
So the implication being that those in state schools aren’t hard working? Hard working, strivers, aspirational etc get trotted out frequently as if those that in state schools aren’t . It also conveniently ignores that fact that some of those kids in independent schools have trust funds going back generations.

@Beansontoast45 well your very lucky then as bursaries are very few and far between and hardly ever for full amount
So for most children they are not accessible at all

So ask the pupils who have trust funds going back generations to pay more then. Many paid the tax and didn't occupy the state school resources! They are struggling to pay the current fee. Should the government refund some of the tax back?

Well Michael Gove is in favour of this policy.

That argument doesn’t hold water. It’s the same as saying childless couples should get a tax break for not using the state school system or people who don’t go the their GPs can get a tax refund for not using the NHS. It’s your choice to use private education when state education is available.

Whispers?

Gove's been on about it since 2017, a there was a version in their last manifesto! (review which would allow the conditions to be set).

It wasn't actioned then, because we could not change VAT until the end of the withdrawal transition period, then it was pandemic which delayed all sorts of stuff.

I think VAT on fees is coming, it's just a question of when and at what rate.

Ending charitable status is a different matter - much more complex, and doesn't raise much, lots of scope for unintended consequences elsewhere in the charitable sector. If they have sense, they'll quietly shelve this bit, and go for the bigger, simpler win

@Scaevola I hear it is post election - presuming they win again - and VAT not charitable status

That is simply not true. My children all attended different independent schools and the bursery process was relatively straightforward. Two of my friends also have kids on full and almost full bursaries.

Bursaries are assessable, you just have to apply. Also, none of my kids are super smart and one actually has a learning difficulty. All of them were welcomed and have benefited massively from the education they have received. I would go as far as to say it was life changing.

@Beansontoast45 when did you get these bursaries and no schools around here do them for the full amount bery often at all and i know people at the private schools etc and one of them i looked into for my ds and we would of had to pay to even get to the bursary stage
My friends whose children got bursaries got about 15% , and the percentage of children in private schools on bursaries is very low so it simply is true

@Beansontoast45 a quick google tells you how many get a bursary at all and thats no full and how its not easy
We earned around £35000 and could not get our son in one
Also live on a council estate and married etc and son talented athlete but not enough for full scholarship
I really don't think you realise how lucky you were to get these and how many people are turned down

All over the last ten years. I still have a child at school. Not on a full bursery anymore due to my earnings but still on a significant one. I absolutely realise how lucky we were and I am thankful for it every day.

I just don’t know why people say bursaries are not assessable. As I said, my children all went to different schools so it wasn’t just one school either. I was also offered help with an expensive school trip. The schools that my children have attended have been so helpful. My two friends have kids on full bursaries at one of the schools and they have had the same experience.

One of my children was given a scholarship too, but that was sublimated with the bursery.

They aren’t charities and should be taxed accordingly.

Our local private school hires the gym for a private club. I don’t know if they do it for peanuts. It’s a club that charges quite a lot of money. It’s not for the Brownies. The yoga group and dance group meet in church halls, presumably it’s cheaper. Maybe other schools are more involved with their “community” but the 2-3 local to us aren’t.

...but they are charities...

If this happens, private education will become more elite, not less. Make the state schools so good that people only choose private from pure snobbery, but don’t destroy institutions doing a good job.

This.

This class envy debate is ridiculous! In the US they are incredulous that we should think of demolishing one of the only world-class institutions the UK has - its private school system.But its been a constant theme since Labour in a fit of class envy abolished the grammar schools in the 60s , saddling most of the country with our current woeful system. Starmer's hypocrisy is staggering : ex-Reigate Grammar School (charges c£20k per annum) but then he joins a long list of Labour hpyopcrites who mouthed off about private schools but still sent their kids to one incl Diane Abbot (son to City of London School), Shami Chakrabati (son to Dulwich College). Starmer is playing to his hard left gallery: and trying to big up Sunak's posh creds. Starmer knows its all rubbish - quite apart from the £16bn the private sector contributes to thew UK economy ; the fact that parents that scrimp n save are effectively double taxed ; the fact that if 200 schools were suddenly to become unviable that another 90,000 kids to educate, let alone the impact on staff & people working at the schools. Unworkable, unnecessary, and a distraction from the real issue wehich is our woeful state education system

Why are you lying about the nature of the school he attended?

This would put so many people out of work if the small to medium schools went under because of this. Not just teachers - independent schools employ so many people like caterers and groundsmen etc. Where will they work? Who’s going to tell them it’s game over?

Grammar schools haven’t been abolished!

Lying? The school currently charges £20k per annum, that's a statement of fact. Kier Starmer passed the 11+ to get in - that's a statement of fact; RGS lost its grammar school status & went private whilst he was there - that's a statement of fact' , & I think his parents got a full grant from the local authority (cant quite remember. And by the way the Head Shaun Fenton is the son of Alvin Stardust -that's a statement of fact