What senior schools manage out pupils

[Curioscat]

I have seen some posts on the board about some senior schools managing out their students that don’t do well on GSCE’s. It would be useful to know which schools are known to do this if anyone could share?

King’s Ely in Cambridgeshire tried to manage out my child. The headteacher was extremely hostile and intimidating.

Surely this is easy to find out? It’s simply - do they have a selective sixth form?
Or do you mean manage out before they fuck up the school’s exam stats?

All schools have selective sixth forms surely? I don't believe there is anywhere that would (say) let you take an A Level if you only had a 4 at GCSE (unless mitigating circumstances).

In terms of spotting schools that do this before GCSE - maybe just focus on picking a school that is nurturing and doesn't think high academic results are the be all and end all?

If the school only offers academic A-levels, they would be doing the students a disservice to let everyone stay on for 6th form even if they got low GCSE grades. I'd guess most schools look for at least a 6 at GCSE in the subjects they want to take. No point for either the student or the school to accept students on to courses that they are not likely to be able to complete.

If the school offer a wider range of courses such as BTECS, CTECS, other vocational courses then the entry requirements for those courses will be lower.

I wouldn't call it managing out, more that you need to meet the entry requirements for the 6th form and the course you want to do. If you don't, then you need to look elsewhere.

I'm assuming you mean before GCSEs? Or possibly partway through sixth form?

It's hard to tell, but some people may be able to give you local experiences.

If you can find out information on the number of students who leave the school in Y11 (possibly via FOI?) then this would be revealing.

If it's a state school, it is illegal, so it's really not common practice.

Having a selective sixth form, as others have said, is normal.

The only time I've heard about it is at the end of year 12, and if pupils are predicted Ds or Es they aren't allowed to continue in year 13 - this is also meant to be illegal I think. It would be useful to have a list of schools that do this, even though some will say it is in the child's best interest, there should still be a choice to continue if you want and of course the opportunity to improve grades.

I always wonder at all the A stars, A and B grades and anything lower being almost unheard of nowadays and wonder what the grade curves look like, as some people surely have to get the lower grades? When I was at school, an A was exceptional and many got a combination including D and E grades yet still went to good universities.

Most (nearly all?) schools require certain results at GCSE to stay in for A Levels. Is that what you mean? Or something else?

I heard a highly ranked boys' school in Oxford and a highly ranked boarding school in Brighton do

@catsonahottinroof “I always wonder at all the A stars, A and B grades and anything lower being almost unheard of nowadays and wonder what the grade curves look like, as some people surely have to get the lower grades?”

It’s just the circles you’re moving in. The national average for a Grade 5 in Maths & English is only about 42%. So there are plenty of those grades out there. You may be in a self selecting bubble. It’s 30% in my niece’s school. I’ve seen 4 niece/nephews come out with between 3-5 GCSEs each with nothing above a 6, and 2 of the 4 resitting English in Y12.

Ds is meant to be going into yr9 next year. If be interested to hear about your story if you're happy to share?

Won't necessarily be represented by kids leaving the school before y11, just not being entered for GCSEs where they're expected to drag the school's stats down. "For the child's benefit", naturally.

Any school that is competitive/aggressive about its rankings and marketing based thereon will be doing this to some extent. A school that is taking on and supporting a breadth of abilities and backgrounds would not be able to deliver the "all 8s and 9s" garbage.

Why would it be useful to you?

Goodness this happened at all the selective private schools on Surrey/Sourh West London 25 years ago: it’s hardly news!

Thank you everyone for your comments; it’s very helpful.
Tbh, I didn’t know what ‘managing kids’ out meant and so I wanted more color/context - if schools discourage kids to write the final test for GSCE’s if they are not predicted to do well or alternatively, if it meant they asked you to leave at end of y11 (and therefore not take 6th form).

I assume that many private senior schools have a minimum criteria in order to take A levels and that this criteria applies equally to their current students and external/new students (applying to the school for only A levels)?

I would say all of the selective schools do this to some extent
Some schools communicate this better with parents than others - earlier is best so kids can apply for places elsewhere

All sixth forms, state or private will have criteria for entering, and subject specific ones too. Some highly selective schools have very high requirements (e.g. average 7.5 from best 8) others maybe only 5 at grade 5 with 6/7s in A level subjects.

The scandal a few years back was a couple of schools pushing kids out at the end of year 12 for not having done well enough in AS / internal exams. This was taken to court/ombudsman and some rules were put in place. I think (may be wrong) now they can't force you out end y12 (though it may not be in a students best interest to do y13 and end up with EEE of course v restarting and doing maybe a BTEC).

That's one reason why picking somewhere for y7 based on A level results is a bit moot as A level results often reflect the 6th form entrance criteria as much if not more than teaching.

The only time I've heard about it is at the end of year 12, and if pupils are predicted Ds or Es they aren't allowed to continue in year 13

For some exam boards the AS level is worth 50% of the final exam grade - they would need and A/B in the final exam to drag the AS result up to a C and therefore a pass mark.

Pointless carrying on for a year to then fail them.

AS levels don't go towards A level marks any more, which is why most schools don't bother wit them anymore.

Plus, an E is a pass at A level.

A D or an E are pass grades at A level, low passes but still passes.
My daughter's school tried to manage her out at year 12 as she was predicted C and Ds. We resisted, she got Cs and Ds. Found a university which would take her on a foundation course and achieved a First in her degree and a distinction in her Masters. The difference when an organisation believes in you (and has good teaching) is amazing.

It’s also often a case that at uni you do one subject you have chosen. Not three where two may not suit.

No, sorry, I wouldn’t like to share..! My child is still at the school - for various reasons - so I wouldn’t want to risk any details.

It depends on your child. If he fits the King’s Ely mould he’ll be fine but if not don’t waste your money frankly.

There’a a real bullying problem in some years which is denied completely for the sake of the school’s reputation. They claim to have a zero tolerance on drugs but loads of the kids smoke weed and there have been at least two credible accusations of sexual assault which have been brushed under the carpet.

Plus there is no added value anymore and the new headteacher is a strange, cold fish compared to the previous one who I liked immensely.

A local highly selective boys school definitely does this - we know two affected families. This was before the child didn’t get all 8-9s for GCSE which is expected. In both cases it was voiced as ‘not a good fit’ .
Schools don’t get results like 95+% grade 9s by teaching alone - those schools are great for some super bright robust dc but not for everyone.

Most sixth forms, state and independent, have minimum academic criteria for Year 12 entry. Both in number of gcses and the grades achieved. It is unusual for pupils to be withdrawn at gcse unless SEND or other circumstances mean focussing on core subjects is better. Such decisions may be made in year 10 or post mocks.

Hi - I’m also considering kings Ely for my son at the moment so would be interested to hear more about this.

Hi - I’m considering kings Ely for my son at the moment so wondered if you might be able to tell me more about your experience?