What senior schools manage out pupils

[Curioscat]

I have seen some posts on the board about some senior schools managing out their students that don’t do well on GSCE’s. It would be useful to know which schools are known to do this if anyone could share?

Managing kids out is a common phrase used by private school parents. It refers to schools that ask students (directly or indirectly) to leave if they think they are going to mess up their league table rankings.

Many selectively academic schools are rumoured to do it.

It's not true that all schools have minimum requirements for continuation into sixth form. Ours (academic private) doesn't. I'm not saying no student ever leaves, but I haven't heard any rumours of students being managed out for low GCSE grades.

How well do they do at A level then with a level 4/5 gcse? Or does everyone get 7/8/9? @vrooomvrooom

Yes, I was wondering the same. My DC's school has a huge inclusivity ethos and the lowest entry criteria in town but even it requires at least a 5 in A Level subjects at GCSE (6 for maths/science). I suspect this academic private manages the children with 4/5s at GCSE out well before they get to sixth form (or doesn't let anyone likely to into the school in the first place).

Or maybe they offer BTEC as an alternative to A Levels for the less academic pupils?

A secondary in the town where DM lives has closed its 6th form only a few years after establishing it. I think ofsted don’t like to see low A level results when dc could do BTecs elsewhere and be more successful. I think they closed in advance of ofsted arriving!

I guess it's a function of being very selective in the first place. Very few kids seem to leave generally, at any point. Results at both GCSE and A level are great, but I get the feeling that's almost inevitable given the entry process, and if a few kids don't quite hit the stellar results, then that's fine, the school will just support them to do their best.

BTECs generally have entry criteria as well ...

Yes. They do. However they are more practical and focused on a career. Therefore can suit some DC. Even a 6 at GCSE might not elicit great results at A level. So it’s being sensible and mixing qualifications for Dc so it brings out the best in them.

Of course - but this thread is about managing pupils out at sixth form level. It's not a case that students who don't get sufficiently good grades to go on and take A Levels will just do BTECs instead - they in turn have their own entry criteria. There will be some students who aren't suited to a school sixth form environment, whether that is to study GCSEs or BTECs.

In terms of the poster who said her school don't make anyone leave, she's since clarified that this is because all students get very good results anyway.

A colleague of mine had a child there some years ago. When it became apparent that he wasn't going to achieve academically, they put a lot of pressure on the parents to remove the child. What I couldn't understand was that this was half way into Year 10 after GCSE courses had started.

My necessary school only accepts pupils in sixth form with minimum grade 7 in all subjects, it is a Micheala type school in Sheffield.

@sheepdogdelight
The thread is about not allowing DC into the 6th form after GCSEs. Well the op asked that anyway. Therefore other courses should be considered by those with level 4/5/6 GCSEs.

@Nat6999
I would love yo know which school. The newish one?

@TizerorFizz I'm not sure I understand your point, but I suspect you are agreeing with me. And the poster who said that all students at her school could move into the sixth form was not referring to ones that got GCSE results that would preclude further sixth form study .

@sheepdogdelight
Sorry! Not trying to be obtuse!

I do know some schools have tried to get rid of pupils in y12. During the 6th form when internal exam results were not good enough. Not allowing Dc into the 6th form for A levels with 4/5 grades at GCSE is a different conversation. Many schools have minimum qualifications for A levels.BTec is usually a lower bar.

Ofsted want to see limited school budgets spent on pupils who then achieve decent grades. A string of D/E grades at A level with no alternative courses offered (or the wrong advice given) makes them say a 6th form is not value for money. It also means the school should offer alternative courses in the 6th form and evaluate the school population and quality of teaching. Many do offer alternatives. Some rightly cater for DC who are bottom 20% achievers by offering alternative courses. This is why many can stay at school but not do A levels.

Surely they all do this to a greater or lesser extent? Just different shades of grey. They can just stop taking your money if they choose, that's part of the deal. My experience is them doing this with children who have mental health difficulties rather than academic ones, but I'd be amazed if they did the first and not the second. It's not much talked about though, so people don't always see it coming.

As PPs have said, state sixth forms have entry criteria too, though of course they may be higher at private schools, and sometimes a bit less transparent. I remember friends being "guided" away from certain A levels even though they got As at GCSE.

TigerorFizz yes the newish one beginning with M, they also have to sit an entrance exam & interview to get a place & the head has said there will not be any common rooms or anything social for sixth formers it will purely be academic study & anyone not meeting their standards will be out.

Our children (son and daughter who are polar opposite to each other interests and ability wise) are at King's Ely. They joined three years ago from our village primary school and it is the best decision we have made! We cannot fault the school in any way so far.

My children are both at Kings Ely and absolutely love it. We have found the pastoral care to be exceptional and have nothing but praise for the school.

To do a Level 3 BTEC, we ask for grade 4s in English and Maths, and usually at least 3 other subjects (some BTECs have other additional requirements). Obviously these are not high entry requirements, but we find that students without these qualifications struggle with the demands of assignments- BTEC assignments do require a reasonable level of written English!

Obviously we ask for higher grades to do A-levels.

There are lots of colleges that offer level 2 options for those who aren't ready for a level 3 course, but I'd say most school sixth forms, even those with a vocational offer, have entry requirements.

We can't support students to resit English and maths, so students MUST have a grade 4 in these to attend at a minimum.

I'd say all schools are selective post 16 to an extent- those that claim not to be presumably wouldn't admit an external pupil they thought would fail the courses they wanted to study?

My DC’s school had criteria for 6th form and if they didn’t achieve the grades expected, they weren’t allowed to join. My DS didn’t, but went to college and from there, to university.

those that claim not to be presumably wouldn't admit an external pupil they thought would fail the courses they wanted to study

No, but I'm sure that our school (along with many others) could replace the weaker students post-GCSE with stronger ones if it chose to. I think the difference between the more and less 'managing out' schools is that some will try to quite ruthlessly ditch their weaker students at 16 in an effort to climb the league tables, while others will see a responsibility to stick with their weaker students even if they're not going to achieve the chart-topping results.

Lots do. Inspiration trust schools were notorious for gaming league tables and Ofsteds by supporting children into ‘more suitable schools’, getting advanced notice of Ofsteds and ‘hiding’ disruptive children during inspections.

MCS and Oxford High School absolutely do this. I went to OHS and it happened to a friend of mine. They also managed out the daughter of a very well known family, her parents called the papers and there was a huge article about it in the Independent.

@Nat6999
He came from Newfield. I don’t think state schools can interview for y7 places. 6th form is different I think.