Son won't attend tuition for 11 plus

[confusedinlondon]

My ds is refusing to attend tuition classes for the 11 plus. The first class was last week and he is refusing to attend any futher classes.
He is a bright, hardworking boy so his reaction has some as a slight surprise but he won't pass without the tuition.

I don't really know what to do and the exams are getting closer and closer. Any advice or suggestions

I can't get over wanting to make a primary aged child do four hours of homework a week on top of extra tuition.

When does he get a chance to be a child?

Crazy crazy world. I know very bright young adults who didn't pass the 11+ because their parents didn't buy into tuition. They went to comprehensives instead (SW London - it was Tiffin they were trying for). Guess what? They got Firsts at RG unis and beyond. And now hold down great jobs.
When we looked at Tiffin with our Y5 son the serious looking little chaps who showed us around said they'd had tuition for 2-3 years. Madness! We scuttled away and eventually moved anyway to a purely comp area where DC did exceptionally well.
Now I realise in a purely grammar area the heat may really be on OP. But goodness this sort of thread illustrates how wrong Grammar education is, and how it really doesn't level up.

Get some past papers and workbooks so he can familiarise himself with the types of questions and time restrictions.
If he can’t pass without tutoring he’s probably going to struggle once he’s there.

Suppose he did do all the tutoring and still didn’t get in?

What would you do then? Because at that stage you wouldn’t have time to move before the secondary application deadline.

What are your nearest comprehensives?

I live in London where our comprehensive options are perfectly fine. Full range of demography from chaotic and dysfunctional to aspirational and focussed. The ‘overall’ GCSE results mean very little. What you need to know is how pupils of your Dx’s ability band perform in relation to their potential. If you have a high performing child, all they need is a (small) critical mass of top set peers.

I have a bit who is very young in his year (late summer birthday), and was quite immature during what would have been the tutoring years. He was flying by GCSE. Clever, conscientious, enjoying his work.

However, there are London schools I would be reluctant to send a child of mine to, for example those zero tolerance academies. In which case I would put my effort and money into moving rather than tutoring, which is always a gamble.

This is not true any more. It is standard for applicants to have months (if not years) of tuition. Sadly the system is skewed towards having to get tuition.

I will start by saying I have a DD in Year 9 at the local Selective Grammar who loves it. And a Year 5 DS who will be heading to the local mixed comprehensive (not the Grammar and not the in catchment boys only ex Grammar) because they are were they both want to go.

YOu cant parent the child you WISHED you had. You can only parent the child you have. You cant change the child to fit the outcome you want you can only change the outcome.

He doesnt sound like this is the right course for him - so you need to think of another path

Maybe leave it for a couple of months and have a talk with him about options.

I gave mine the choice. I can't cope with stress or battles. I told both doing it gives them more options as there are four grammar schools in our borough. My DD liked the idea of one of the grammars. My DS doesn't really know anything about the schools but said he might as well do it as not doing it limits his options anyway. I told them both it doesn't matter if they pass or fail and that very bright kids can fail on the day which I've seen.

I felt 121 tuition would be too intense. I don't think they would like the tuition centres. They both had one hour online lessons in class size 8/9 from October in year 5. No travelling. Same tutor for both. He keeps classes very light and jovial. The kids are smiling throughout. Attending is not a chore and there's no wishing they didn't have it.

Homework was a shock to DC as ours don't get much from school compared to other state primaries in the area. Reading every day. 3 minutes times tables every day. A few vocabulary words to learn a week. Then a set homework based on their class work which is around 90 minutes a week so we split out over 2/3 days and there's plenty of free time after.

Well don't make him them!

We didn't do tutoring, but I offered a wide range of past papers and workbooks, and made myself available to mark and give advice and explain why things were wrong. Ds1 was interested in doing the papers and enjoyed them, sometimes I had to remind him but didn't have to nag. He passed with flying colours and is thriving at grammar school. DS2 didn't want to do the papers, procrastinated, didn't want to engage with why he had got answers wrong or take advice. He did not pass and is doing great at comprehensive school. I was very much of the opinion that if they didn't want to do the work or enjoy doing the work, they would not do well at grammar school, so I didn't nag or force either of them, just made the work available and reminded them why they were doing it.

Careful. You're going to set me off on another rant.

Grammar schools need to be abolished. They really do. They're worse than private schools, in the sense that the 11+ damages the vast majority who take it, one way or another. Grammar schools, like private schools, are now only the preserve of those with money. At least most of the latter don't make applicants feel like failures.

the options are grammar school or move. This is why I am trying to get him to focus on the grammar schools.

No pressure at all on the child then.

Just not true. My son sat the 11 + with no official coaching and passed with a 226. I bought books from Amazon and he practiced over the summer holidays.

One of my children sat an 11+ for a London grammar last month with at least 6 kids sitting for every place. And most state schools don’t push kids to do it so it is a selective candidate cohort to start. Results aren’t out yet but having been through it I just don’t think it is realistic to expect a bright child to pass without any form of tutoring or help. It was a time pressured exam and if you’re not familiar with the style of questions, what is normally going on with the Non Verbal reasoning etc then it isn’t realistic to make the cut.

By comparison I have family at grammars elsewhere where all primary kids sit it and roughly top 40% of the cohort get a grammar place. In which case a bright child can likely get away with less.

I would say though that some of the tuition centres I see/hear about on the grapevine do seem quite depressing. Very rote learning drill, not always good teaching. I would think about 1-1 tuition and also get some books from CGP. Plus encourage reading as vocab breadth is important.

closer to the time exam practice under timed conditions is important. You can buy papers from the likes of CGp with audio tracks that time the sections. Note though if the exam board was CEM they aren’t doing written papers for next year - unclear for some exams what they will be using next year.

I am an 11+ tutor (but not in London)
I do 1 to 1 tutoring.
I only tutor year 5 students and I give 1-2 hours homework per week.

I think your tutor is expecting a lot.
I can also usually predict within a couple of weeks which kids will pass, who is borderline but will be OK with good prep and who is going to struggle.

And I have 3 kids at super selectives myself, and I am seriously laughing at the idea that any of them have ever done 3 hours homework per night, even at GCSE and A level.
The advantage of their school is that lots of things are done ni school, classes with all high achievers and no disruption tends to mean that they can get through a lot in class, and have no need to give hours of homework

@ladywithnomanors your child is an outlier. There are always outliers. And well done to him for having the focus and on doing so well, and to you for engaging with him. But you absolutely are the exception.

Why would you put so much pressure on him? If he won't pass without tuition, he isn't clever enough for grammar school.

We're in London. Are you aiming for QEB, DAO and Latymer? I think 3-4 hours homework is mad! No wonder he doesn't want to do it. Ro a few Bond books and see the level he is at first before you torture him with the 3-4 hours of homework. Honestly, I have been through the 11+ system in London and you don't have to do it this way. There are many tutors with high pass rates that don't torture kids with endless homework

Try a few Bond books*

Latymer is actually not that difficult to get into once you pass the first round of results

The advantage of their school is that lots of things are done ni school, classes with all high achievers and no disruption tends to mean that they can get through a lot in class, and have no need to give hours of homework
This was what DS's grammar was like too.

I don't have a lot of money as a lone parent on a low income and it didn't stop DS getting in.

If he wont pass without tuition, thats a problem in itself. Getting in is a very small part of grammar school life. Why tutor knowing they'll maybe just pass and then struggle all the way through school unless you maintain extra help. My son is super bright but a slow coach. He took it and didnt get to finish the exam. He was only 2 marks off even though he missed 2 pages. His teachers said he is more than capable but his time management and speed of work is not grammar standard. He is going to a normal school and will probably be top of the class. Its his life, you can only guide.

My mistake he actually got 282 - I’ve just asked him 🙈. The highest score in the county that year. He is very driven tbh and may well be an exception to the rule. I couldn’t have afford tuition for him at the time.

Get him to do some practice papers, see how he scores. He may not need tuition

Honestly, if he is only 8/9 it is worth leaving it for a while.

You shouldn't need to send him to tuition. Either he is bright enough on his own or he shouldn't be at a grammar because he'll be unhappy.
Familiarisation is all he should need. A few exam practice sheets in the summer hols. That's all mine had.

It's perfectly possible for a reasonably bright child to pass the 11+ without paid tuition. Just buy some of the books and practice at home.

If he doesn't want to do it (or isn't able to without someone forcing him), maybe it's not right for him.