SW London Girls' Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023

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i myself have been looking for this thread and have been unsuccessful. Saw a couple people mention it over the past day or so on the 2022 one.

so here we go, albeit a bit late.

has everyone visited all the schools on their lists?

how many schools are everyone applying to?

what schools are you applying to?

how is the preparation going?

i know some exams have taken place, how did they go?

wishing all the whirls good luck with preparation and exams, hope we all find the right schools for our daughters.

@secondaryquandries EXACTLY! You can't second guess (much less control) the outcome, so you just have to be sensible about the spread of schools DC is applying to and help keep them calm through the process.

If anyone wants to do a comprehensive analysis, then I would suggest using the "feeder" lists at the bottom of this weblink. From there, you can look up each prep school and review their leavers' destination pages for acceptances/offers ratios. For some upper schools, you can reconstruct more than half the class.

www.londonpreprep.com/rankings/

From the experience of our (very) small co-ed indie, the ratio of offers to children is around 2.5-3 and even some of the most competitive schools see quite a few rejections... looking at the last years, for instance, around half or more of the offers from WHS and PHS were not taken (or Kings Dulwich, on the boys' side). Yes, it may be the same girls getting quite a few offers.. but the schools still need to factor that when offering.

one thing I was surprised by having gone through this last year was the last minute offers. I know of a few people who had already bought uniform etc and then were offered a waiting list place just before September term started / just after it had started in another case! In one case they were offered and accepted Tiffin Girls the day after Tiffin term started. Not that I'm suggesting anyone holds out for this!

@SpringCalling I was just talking with a friend the other day about that who had a similar experience. Apparently of a combination of families moving (there are always going to be some cases) but also the fact that schools are finding increasingly difficult to forecast acceptances so they opt sometimes after negative experiences over-offering) to be more moderate in their offers and 'undershoot' and also some families edging their bets by paying deposits at more than one school. I was quite surprised about the latter, but my friend knew a couple of people in her primary indie that had been quite open about having done that.

Totally @QuiteAJourney my daughter’s year there were many families who did that, especially those waiting on grammars. I was shocked too, but one family paid three deposits and gave themselves time to see the gcse results as they were the first proper year since covid! I think that’s a massive waste and very unfair on families who are waiting on the places at the other schools. When DD got into Sutton, her best friend only got waitlist and was waiting for a place but didn’t end up getting one as they didn’t go to the waitlist in the end, and DD said at least two girls didn’t show up on day 1! I always think about those places going to her best mate, but they’re both happy in their schools in the end. Some parents will always play a game with admissions. This time around we’ve decided we won’t wait and will deposit early if DD gets the place she wants.

Anyone else already feeling overwhelmed?! We are a month away from our first exam now and I'm just not sure dd is ready. I know rationally that they will all end up in the right place but it just seems so hard for ten years old to cope with and the level seems so high!

@1forward2back , I did not realise that you were going through it again this year. DD too? Thanks for joining the thread and providing your perspective having done it last year.

@Firenze12 , I fluctuate, tbh. DH is more level-headed than me. But I so know what you mean.. we have had one interview already, have an interview and creative writing assessment in 2 weeks (Woldingham) and start exams in 20 days (KGS on a Friday and then Sutton High on a Monday)... all so real! But glad in a way that we are getting closer to it and that we will be mostly done by Christmas as I think it is the waiting for things to kick in that makes it worse (at least for me).

Yes @QuiteAJourney I agree it will be such a relief for to all be over. Feel like this has been building up for a while.
Great to have others in the same situation. Good luck to your dd!

@QuiteAJourney she’s y5. Also have a son, but that was easy! Girls are so much harder in Sw london!

@QuiteAJourney - even more grateful that you are sharing the journey with us! Interesting that you think the boys are easier in SW London, though I have to say that I found the choice quite daunting..

@Firenze12 , good luck to your DD too. Which one is the your first? In an ideal world, we would not have started so early or with KGS.. but counting our blessings that, so far, we have had no timetable clashes.

@1forward2back I remember reading your posts on one of these threads a few years back. Where did your older DD go and are they happy there? I can't believe you have to go through it all again so soon!

3 times in four years @LondonMum20222 !!! I avoided it with Ds though as moved him into an all through for y5!
That would be my biggest piece of advice if I was speaking to y4/5 people. The not having to do 11+ has been amazing.
DD is really happy :-)

@1forward2back Really glad your DD is happy. That's all any of us want, at the end of the day. We turned down a few through schools at 4+ as we felt that children change so much in that time that we wanted the flexibility (and 11+ support from a prep) to find wherever might be a good fit at 11. I still think that was the right choice for DD, but ask me again in a year's time when she's actually sitting the exams! (She's in Year 5 too).

My ds has had a rejection from tiffin boys after stage one now. I'm interested to know, from those who have gone through it before, can/do children rejected after stage 1 of tiffin get offers from top private schools? I do know a couple of boys who did and got into Hampton, but is this common or an anomaly? 🙏

@secondaryquandries Really sorry to hear this. It's tough, especially when it's the first one. There were some good comments on last year's thread about this (re Tiffin girls) and the general advice was that of course they still have a shot at top private schools (Tiffins is only one test on one day, after all) but that it's advisable to add another back-up school (or two) to the list at that stage, just to give him some cushioning (and yourself some peace of mind).

Thank you. He did get though stage one of Sutton grammar, so at least that was good but it has knocked the confidence a bit!

The levels to pass through these grammar school are so much higher than the levels they work at at school. There, he is getting full marks in practice sats assessments, but still not even through tiffin 1. It means so much has be be done out of school.

@secondaryquandries Have you done any Atom? I would do their free 5-day trial just to whip through some baseline assessments and mock tests and get some scores for him. They'll give you some insight into where he's at academically for both grammar and private.

Yes we do have atom now. Is the best guide the mock tests?

@secondaryquandries so sorry to hear about your DS. As mentioned above, all depends on the day (and also the type of exam). Out of the very few boys that we know that applied both to Tiffin and private schools, one did not pass Tiffin Stage 1 and got an offer from Whitgift.
The fact that he passed stage 1 of Sutton is definitely reassuring.
On the Atom testing issue, we find them useful up to a point, tbh. Each school has a different type of exam, so the best is to aim for a variety of tests depending on which schools you are applying to.

Thank you guys. To be honest, I'd rather know now than after the second stage as at least saves my son another exam (albeit also removes the option of free local school!). It's just such a nerve racking process!

@secondaryquandries Yes, I think the mock tests are useful (remember that Atom scores are about 8-10 points lower than CATs, as a guide). I'm not a fan of Atom (I hate the fact that the child can see a ton of data about their results after every test) but I think for a snapshot it's helpful.

@LondonMum20222 can I check about the points - we are at a state primary and so I don't know what CAT scores are exactly? If my son gets say 115 on Atom on average, what does this mean, and what would his chances likely be of getting into schools such as KGS, Reeds, Emanuel? Thanks!

@Dallasdays I'm not across boys / co-ed as we're only looking at girls schools, but there are dozens of threads on here about CAT scores if you search for them, and I'm sure you'll find some for the schools you're interested in (you may have to wade through the chat a bit!) Whatever the suggested CAT score, just take off 8 points for Atom. Given the average scores for girls schools I know, 115 on Atom sounds about right for those schools you mention. And remember the CAT / Atom scores aren't a science (so not entirely accurate) and they're averages - so some students will be higher and some a lot lower. There's some good answers from WombatChocolate about CAT scores / 11+ results on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4648080-cat-scores-for-spgs?page=1

Thank you very much!