SW London Girls' Private & Grammar - applying for year 7 in 2023

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i myself have been looking for this thread and have been unsuccessful. Saw a couple people mention it over the past day or so on the 2022 one.

so here we go, albeit a bit late.

has everyone visited all the schools on their lists?

how many schools are everyone applying to?

what schools are you applying to?

how is the preparation going?

i know some exams have taken place, how did they go?

wishing all the whirls good luck with preparation and exams, hope we all find the right schools for our daughters.

@bjmin, I agree that how / when to communicate outcomes is one of the trickiest aspects. To be honest, I am inclined to let her know about the good outcomes and delay the 'bad' ones as much as possible. DH is in a different place but we can see that DD is getting more stressed and really takes failure to heart so I think he might be moving to a similar view to mine.
All so very tricky!!

@QuiteAJourney @bjmin I think there's also a broader concern that you can protect your DD (by choosing what to tell and what to push into the long grass) but you can't stop other girls in their year talking (dare I say boasting!) about what second stage / interviews etc they've got. That's my concern: I would choose not to tell my DD if she didn't get through, to keep her confidence up for the others, but if all their friends at school are talking about it, I don't really understand how you can pretend you haven't heard back yet...

@LondonMum20222 Agree that it is tricky ...it just depends on the case, tbh.
We are applying to some schools where the stage 2 issue does not come up - (they interview and test all the girls). We are also applying to one where I think my DD and one of her friends are the only ones in her year (admittedly in a very small school) applying to a certain school that makes it easier than when half of the girls are applying. Other schools will only communicate success in progressing to stage 2 after most of our exams will be over (and potentially after we already have an acceptance, fingers crossed). Plus, in our experience, schools do not necessarily communicate at the same time with all applicants / letters do not arrive at the same time (basically, a 'white lie' saying that we have not got it to delay telling her a negative result by 2-3 days can make quite a difference to an anxious child, imho.
I am not postulating that it is necessarily the best way (for instance, my DD has friends that thrive on competition and get even more determined if they do not succeed.. I just know that my DD has a different personality), just my current thinking.

@QuiteAJourney I think your current thinking is very wise, and we'll be doing the same. My DD is definitely not someone who thrives on rejection (!) and I think sowing the seeds of white lies early (eg as you say, that not everyone will be on the same timeline with every school) is very sensible. Also, I hope that because they'll just be in the thick of exams / interviews for multiple schools, they won't keep abreast of which school had a second round etc etc.

@LondonMum20222 Fingers crossed - in a very timely fashion, KGS has just sent an email confirming that they will let people know whether DC have progressed to second stage (interview) on Monday 21st November ... the very week my DD has her ISEB and also Ibstock! Oh, well.

PS I still cannot understand how or why schools can mark all the exams in 2-3 weeks and ascertain who is moving to interview stage and who is not but then wait for another 6-8 weeks to interview.

We are possibly over applying but I think it's right for us:

• We have limited guidance due to being in a state school.

-We think our son is capable of getting into a very selective school and that he would thrive there, however we know that he sometimes makes careless mistakes, so we'd rather sit multiple highly selective schools to increase his chances. -If we sat one aspirational, one likely, one safe and were not offered the aspirational school, then I think we would wonder if we should have sat more.

• The schools which we like most are all very over subscribed.
• Our son is pretty chillled.

I started my own thread in education but now I've found this thread I hope it's ok to join the conversation and ask here!

We are moving to Hampton area from 2hrs away for DH's work. DS has an offer at Hampton school so LEH is our preferred school for DD but we haven't yet put in for anything else. I realise we need to be quick as we have already missed the closing date for kGS! Can anyone advise on where LEH sits in terms of the required academic level (I found a list for boys schools on another thread but haven't seen a girls schools one) and what we should be going for as alternatives/insurance??

I do know WImbledon High as a school but not where they sit in the list, and I assume Putney High is similar. I know st Paul's is the ultra competitive one but I don't know anything about Sutton, Surbiton etc.

Thanks so much in advance!!

I am not really up to date but my understanding is that LEH is very academic. At least as competitive as Hampton, if not more. Then Wimbledon and Putney are fairly similar ? Both also highly competitive, with more applying from central London than leh would. Wimbledon and leh are both fed by a primary, reducing spaces. Not sure about Putney. Leh is perfect with a son at Hampton point obviously.

Surbiton is a great school and does extremely well but my understanding is that it is less competitive than the three above. Sutton I'm not really sure-similar to Surbiton perhaps?

I would say that historically LEH was always seen as slightly more academic than PHS and WHS but it's actually all much of a muchness.
Some girls will get into one and not the other etc as all have different entrance tests. Also appeal to a slightly different demographic given the location of LEH. I don't think it's harder to get into than Hampton because there are lots more girls options around. In terms of places v numbers sitting it may look harder but they probably have to offer more to fill their spaces.
All the GDSTs have prep schools as well.
Sutton and (Surbiton to some extent) are easier to get into but not always clear cut. Know girls who have got into Putney and not Surbiton for example.

@emanonsah You've still got time for applications - don't worry! @secondaryquandries and @notputtingtheheatingonyet are both spot on re Surbiton and Sutton - if you check the previous years' threads on SW London 11+, they appear to be easier to get into, so would be a good back-up. I would have a read of last year's thread as there are lots of other schools mentioned around LEH / Kingston etc (we don't live around there so I'm not familiar with them).
In terms of rankings (if that's helpful in your decision-making) there's a list here of the 2022 A Level results / league table for London schools. As you can see LEH is very high. (As are all the schools we're all talking about, tbf...)

www.londonpreprep.com/2022/08/a-level-results/

The tougher ones are: LEH, PHS, WHS. Back-ups are Surbiton High, Sutton High, if you're OK with mixed, then Claremont Fan.
Could be worth phoning KGS and asking if you can still be included.

@emanonsah I think LEH is probably the most challenging to gain entry to, followed by PHS and WHS (both rather competitive too, especially as most of the girls come up from the respective junior schools). The selection processes for WHS and PHS are very different and it is rather usual to throw different results (ie. girls accepted by one but not the other).
Surbiton and Sutton usually considered less competitive but by no means as bankable as they used to be. Surbiton is very big at secondary, so they have quite a few places (despite having a junior school). Sutton has very limited places available due to its overall size and having a junior attached (also, their application deadline has passed, I think).

At an LEH Open Day they said they had 500 applicants last year for 60 places (the remaining places are filled by the junior school). From what I can glean (and some schools are more tight-lipped about this than others) a ratio of 10:1 is about standard for top London day schools. I suspect it's even higher for the likes of SPGS and G&L. These are tough odds, and it's worth reminding our DDs that there are more bright, sparky girls who would do very well at any of these schools than there are places available. Not getting an offer doesn't mean they weren't good enough: it just means that these schools are crazily oversubscribed (hence why we all, as parents, apply for more schools than we ideally want our children to sit). There's a certain element of luck / serendipity / who does well on the day involved in the offers process.

Thankfully, the odds are actually not quite that bad. Most schools have half to 2/3 of their offers turned down (excluding SPGS). That means that if a school gets 500 applications for 50 spaces, they will need to make 100-150 offers in order to fill a class of 50.

Look at offers vs acceptances for a number of prep schools:

www.falknerhouse.co.uk/brechin-place/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Results-to-Print.pdf

www.glendowerprep.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2022-11-Results.pdf

www.kensingtonprep.gdst.net/about/senior-school-places/

Hi all - we are also running the gauntlet of SW London independent 11+ process - a minefield indeed. Does anyone know if the kids can bring pens to write with into the exams, vs only pencil being allowed? My son much prefers using a pen to write...

Pens are fine but pencil for VR/ NVR.
In fact pens can be better as they can just cross something out if they want to change it, rather than spending ages rubbing it out!

Thank you!

@bjmin thank you looking at offers vs acceptances from the prep schools has put me at ease. This process is stressful anyway but as a state school parent you are given no information from school whatsoever, no guidance or anything.

the statistics mentioned makes sense and we only need one offer from one school.

I am so grateful to see this- I was having a complete panic yesterday when I realised it was the norm to put in for 5 or so! It's normal where we currently live to be able to pick and choose if your DC are reasonably bright but the SW London set up seems scary! I can really see the benefit of the ISEB for that reason as so many are adopting it but it does put a great deal of stress on the performance of one day. I myself went to a GDST school, I only did the one exam
and I can't remember being super stressed about it even though we found out later there were only 30 or so places but 250 sitting it. I'm going to try and ensure DD feels equally relaxed.

The whole realisation of offers being a multiple of places makes things so much easier. Also, quite a few schools operate waiting lists and they tend to move into them, usually quite quickly after early/ mid March (when they get a clearer idea of where they are with acceptances and especially after grammar schools start moving into reserve list too (domino effect like)

It's true that all the schools over-offer, but those three prep schools that @bjmin posted (plus Bute) are the exception rather than the rule - not all prep / primary schools are going to be delivering those kinds of results. I would be genuinely astonished if the offer : acceptance ratio was as high as 3:1 although that's clearly the reason that some senior schools ask you to name the other schools you're applying to - they want to be able to gauge likely acceptances.
Re waiting lists: if you read the last couple of years' threads on this, the wait lists for the popular schools (not just SPGS / G&L / CLSG but also PHS / WHS / LEH etc) barely moved at all, which suggests the registrars are getting pretty savvy at figuring out their offer:acceptance ration.
What we've been told is to apply to 4-5 schools which you and DD really like - and would be happy to go to - make sure it's a realistic spread of aspirational, target and back-up schools (with a very confident back-up) and you'll be fine. From the previous years' threads, it's clear that it's very very rare for a child to end up with no offers (or no offers that the family are happy with).

These offers/acceptance lists are reassuring. Though I guess 1 child may get 5 offers and another none!
Here is another one from a Wimbledon prep

www.thestudyprep.co.uk/admissions/leavers-destinations/

@secondaryquandries That is indeed the case re some children getting multiple offers and others getting none (or just one), which is why those lists from the prep schools aren't entirely clear-cut!
Pretty much all the prep schools publish their leavers' destinations (though some more transparent than others eg Bute House stopped doing them annually when fewer girls got SPGS offers and started aggregating over a four-year period) so the info is all out there for people who want it. But yes, of the girls I know in older years, there will be a handful of girls who get offers at every school they apply to, which skews the figures somewhat.

They should definitely share the offers around a bit!
But seriously, I guess there's not too much point thinking it over and over. What will be will be. Just need to make sure to apply to a relatively 'safe' school somewhere in the mix!