Considering independent school. Family very negative about it?

[WTDAS]

Our eldest is in Y6 and so we've started looking secondary schools.

Current favourite is a local independent and for what it offers we think it'll be worth the expense. (Affordable for us with some sacrifices if DC2 ends up there too but nothing we aren't willing to make - fewer holidays, tigger budget etc)

But no one in either side of our family have ever set foot in a private school and are just full of reasons why it's the wrong decision.

Waste of money.

Nice kids will do well anywhere.

Won't learn what real life is like.

Teachers aren't qualified.

Will get bullied.

Etc etc. List goes on.

Honestly I go between being taken in by it and being more determined to send him.

Anyone had the same?

Is it a girls or boys school?

My MIL was very opposed to us sending our DC to private schools, and did not factor in the different challenges faced by inner London schools and the middle class northern primary where she worked as a p/t TA.

She has never really forgiven me and DC, now in their 20s have to hear all about the achievements of their cousins and second cousins whilst theirs are not acknowledged. Their achievements were apparently bought. Even if they worked hard both at school and after.

It was the right decision for both DC. DS is studious and thrived in a very academic school, where he had a good group of friends with shared interests. (DH is similar and really struggled in a “bog standard” comp where he became isolated and was bullied.) DD is bright but very dyslexic and received strong SEND support through her secondary school career.

To some extent it is an investment decision. Look at your kids and look at the choices available to you. Is private likely to be worth the value added. We probably would not have paid if we lived somewhere else. None of my NCT contemporaries used the local state school. They all moved, tutored, found religion, or rented in other catchments. The last was very common. I could not see why paying is considered a less moral option.

My children went to private schools. We started down that route as my eldest didn't get in to the FOUR nearest state schools due to over subscription. So private it was.
I think the real value was made very evident in how the school handled the pandemic. My daughter was doing her GCSEs in 2021. The school was fantastic. Full schedule of classes from the first day of lockdown. Lots of support. When I saw friends with children at the local state schools they were in a panic as the school did the bare minimum (I know not all private schools were great and that sone state schools did manage very well, but I can only comment on my experience).
I went to a state school (not in this country). If you have good state schools and your child is a hard worker that's where I'd send them. If they are poor, and/or your child would benefit from extra support and you think the school suits his character, then consider the private.
You will undoubtedly find a mix of socioeconomic backgrounds though of course it will be skewed to wealthier families, but to be frank it's not usually an issue.
Ignore the prejudice of your family and do what you think is best.

God in the pandemic the state primaries round here were appalling. The teachers basically totally buggered off. My older Dd in state secondary by comparison had an almost seamless online switch.

If you can afford it at all, you have a moral duty to do the best for your kids by sending them to a decent fee paying school.

I went to a terrible state school in Ireland, which was little more than crowd control, and my wife went to one of the top independent schools in the country.

I worked hard over the past 20 years to get where I am, but it is only through seeing how well my wife's school friends have done in the City and in professional services, that I really see the value of the confidence and network that a decent fee paying education brings.

We have three kids under 10 - all in prep school and all loving it. Worth every penny.

The youngest is in pre-prep, but the point stands.

Oh I love a good private school thread!

I have two kids private school

If your child has come through state school where are they at in terms of ability/academically ? Many independent/ private primaries run at 18 months ahead of state schools so if your son joins this school he may already be behind especially if they have the lower school attached, he may struggle to catch up if there are holes in his learning - however a really good school will spot this and act accordingly

Have you checked the ISI? Not all private schools are academically sound, we have to move from our first one. However if you find a a really good one - they - are- worth - every - single - penny.

👍 what schools did your DCs attend. In the same dilemma of deciding state school vs. Independent

I taught at QE boys! Lovely school though certainly not typical of state schools or even other grammars

They are your children, no one else's, so make the right decision for their education and make no apologies for it.

This is so random!

Sorry I put my comment on the wrong person! It was actually a reply to something specific that was listed 🤣

private schools are not the same as independent schools
anyone can teach at a private school, whereas independent
school teachers are usually double degreed

private schools are for poshos, independent are for competitive
children required to sit an entrance exam, interview with the
headmaster and the capacity to keep up

perhaps your family are concerned regarding the social aspect
of school life - the prospect of what does your pater do Carruthers
and being beaten up if the answer does not suit, which
is still a prevalent notion, but comcern is relevant if your child/ren are to take
advantage of school trips, expensive sports, etc.

It can be an upward battle so best not to say anything.
My own father, an engineer, exclaimed when my son had good
marks for his latin and greek at gcse, why were they learning
a dead language, what good will that do them, on and on.
Embarrassing.
He seemed to think ne would be better off doing woodwork - see?
best to say nothing.
At my son’s school open day, we were able to look around, ask
questions, speak to teachers,
6th form boys in attendance (so tall, so big)
which was helpful

good luck OP whatever you decide

private schools are not the same as independent schools
anyone can teach at a private school, whereas independent
school teachers are usually double degreed

what? I think you’re getting mixed up with public schools

If the state options near you are awful then I can understand. However not all independents are good. Plus as you said you’ll have to tighten your belts and it will be tight I’d really consider if you can’t make the state school work. If you’ve the money to spare go for it.

I think you are making some very odd, wholly spurious distinctions here. Private and independent are the same, some are academically selective, some are not, whatever they're called.

It depends entirely on the quality of the specific school and how well it will suit your dc. I've taught in multiple state and independent schools and my own dc have been through a (formerly pretty good but currently nosediving) state comprehensive.

One of the independents I worked in was a truly wonderful place. I would have loved to send dd there (girls' school) if I could have afforded to. The other one I worked in (very long-established and expensive) I wouldn't have sent my dc to for free.

Your relatives don't sound like they have a clue though. A really good private school is likely to have, if anything, better qualified teachers than state schools. Bullying is just as rife in state schools as private schools. Whether kids do well isn't dependent on whether they are 'nice' (what an odd remark). How good a school is will affect how any child does, but things like small class sizes in a private school can make a real difference. The 'real life' comment is nonsense.

private schools are not the same as independent schools

Yes they are.

I think the real issue is that the behaviour of a minority of students in a lot of state secondaries is so appalling and anti social that it would be truly distressing for a child who comes from a functional home where people treat each other with respect and kindness. Experiencing the behaviour of very troubled young people who shout, scream, swear, use physical violence, vape, use racist or sexually aggressive language can be traumatising if your life experience has not inured you to such things.

@Acemum33 this is true. You're either traumatised by it or you come to see it as normal. Neither is good. We are moving ds to a different school for 6th form. He says his current school is 'not that bad', but that's because, sadly, he has never known anything different.

If you are a Christian or a humanist you shouldn't send your children to private school for moral reasons.

If you believe in climate change you should spend your money on making sure your house (s) food and travel are environmentally friendly.

If you are patriotic you should spend your money on supporting political parties which will make sure parents and children have enough to eat and stable housing and /or your business to build up exports for UK plc.

I think undoubtedly it is easier to get into a top university from a state comprehensive. We live near two top performing independent schools and there is much indignation that the local girls comp gets a greater number of their students into Oxbridge. A neighbour's daughter attended the girls independent school. She has just done her GCSEs and she is swapping to the comprehensive state school for her sixth form knowing that she has the same chance if not better of getting offers from the best universities.
My PILS paid for my nieces to go to to independent schools because the girls were super bright. They actually swapped them to state schools for their sixth form. My ordinary children went to the local comp and both went to Cambridge. My poor MIL was completely dumbfounded. She never went to university and she honestly thought expensive meant better.

There are a lot of people who will express strong opinions about matters which they know nothing. We had the same from some friends about decision to send DD to indy: just decide what is best for YOUR children and politely tell others that is what you have decided. They may not think it is value for money, the right choice etc. but then it is not THEIR decision to make.

And not just friends! Some complete random in the doctor’s waiting room once demanded to know why my children went to private school! I was so taken aback I actually answered her

''They all moved, tutored, found religion, or rented in other catchments. The last was very common. I could not see why paying is considered a less moral option.''

I always wonder this as well, @Needmoresleep . My cousin is vociferously anti private schooling- but she played catchment monopoly in order to get into a state school she wanted. That is just paying for it, by a different means - while giving her that warm smug feeling that she is somehow better than me who was honest enough to just pay up front.

Also there was one really good state school in our area and it was massively over subscribed. My argument that by paying for private I was opening up a place to the good state school for someone who might not otherwise have gotten into that school so i was performing a public service really made her hit the roof with fury. (I said it to wind her up actually, because she was pissing me off with her self righteous bullshit about how immoral we were to pay for private). )

But I maintain that nobody else has the right to tell you what to do with your own money. We do not have fancy cars or holidays and we downsized our house in order to have much smaller mortgage payments. Private school has been brilliant for my son who has a range of SEN and he is supported brilliantly via the excellent pastoral care he receives.