Headteacher meeting, awaiting diagnosis

[WitsHaveEnded]

I'll try and keep this as short as possible without missing anything.

DD 13, just gone into year 9. Horrendous year last year, constantly late to school, detentions, on report for 3/4 of the year, truanting lessons, not completing work, but generally well behaved (their words). Countless phone calls from the school during the day, meetings with the year head and deputy head. She is not even 2 weeks into year 9, has already been put in Inclusion, and they've called me 9 times. Yesterday they said that "there is a waiting list of girls wanting to get into this school and she clearly doesn't want to be here", and today I've been called while at work to be asked to come in Friday AM to meet with the headteacher. Meaning an unplanned day off work for me.

She has nothing. All devices have been taken off her, she is grounded. Absolutely nothing gets through to her. I am out of words and ways to explain how her behaviour is affecting her and me. I've talked calmly, screamed, shouted, cried. She has been in counselling, currently been waiting since January for ADHD assessment, school are aware of both things, yet I feel like they are trying to "off roll" her out of there without them ever putting any sort of behavioral plan in place or proactively trying to manage her behaviour in school. Everything just results in detention, or inclusion, which they've admitted don't work, or calling me for what seems like just a chance to complain about her being late to lessons. Other than me quitting work and volunteering to chaperone her to each lesson how do I manage that?

I've been told a behavioural plan can only be done with a diagnosis. Is this true? I was under the impression it wasn't needed. While in general I agree she is a nightmare, I am at a loss right now as to what more I should be doing than what I already am.

What questions should I be asking when I meet with the Head? I don't want to be steamrolled the minute I sit down.

Any advice for a very worn down Mum would be much appreciated 😪

That's horrible OP. I'm so sorry, but what does she say as to why she's doing it? Does she hate this particular school? Is she meeting up with someone outside of school? What about trying to move her to a different school to try to get a fresh start? Would she want to move schools?

She doesn't to move schools. She doesn't know why she is this way. She's always been so laid back she's practically horizontal, it's been mentioned throughout every year of school so far, while she was in primary it could be managed but now she has to be more self motivated and independent she's really struggling.

She did in Year 8 become best friends with a girl that did seem to be a bit of a free spirit. Not the worst and nice enough but vaped aged 12, didn't have a curfew etc and she definitely had an influence however she is moving schools imminently.

My fear with moving schools is that it'll just be more of the same. Also, where she is right now is by far the best senior school where we live. The others wouldn't be an option, ever. But I'm worried it's going to be taken out of my hands.

The school can put a behaviour plan in place without a diagnosis. The school should be looking at needs not diagnosis, and clearly there is some unmet need there. What have the school been doing? What is she being put in inclusion for? What do they do after they've thrown a detention around?

No school whose response to this is "she clearly doesn't want to be here so whatever" is a good school. They might look good on paper but probably because they manage out young people like yours.

Behaviour plan, what tosh!

How about a plan for “how school will meet X’s emotional needs”? Ask them what they feel the function of her behaviour is, what is the unmet or unexpressed need at the root of it?

She doesn’t need a diagnosis to receive help at the “SEN Support” level - it’s in the Code of Practice!

Yeah I should have taken issue with the word "behaviour plan" there too. They sound awful.

Thank you, oh god the tears have started ha! This is what I've been thinking. It's not right. They're punishing her over and over and expecting different results each time. Taking away her lunch break the next day for not completing enough work in one lesson is a punishment after the fact and doesn't actually solve anything imo. They know she is a daydreamer, gets easily distracted, yet I've had to personally ask each teacher at parents evening to seat her at the front away from distractions. That should be something they should be managing surely?

She isn't perfect, but it breaks my heart thinking of the daily batterings she gets with the "you're not doing good enough" punishments, her self confidence is shot to pieces. As is mine as a Mother.

I just want to be able to matter of fairly tell them what I KNOW they said be doing instead of them just sitting me down to tell me what she is not doing.

Matter of factly*

Taking away her lunch break goes against the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and all U.K. schools should be “Rights Respecting Schools.”

Ask them to scale her behaviour against a certain objective. Ok so for completing her work she’s currently 3/10. How do we get her to 4/10? What would that look like? What does she need? Who in school can help her?

Being seated at the front as a matter of course is the easiest fix on the world. Does she have a one page profile? If not then they should make one and make sure each one of her teachers reads it.

They should give her task planners, visual reminders of what she needs to do. Quick teacher check ins at the start of a task (asking her in her own words what she needs to do) and then after five minutes.

She’s been in counselling, ok so in addition to the in-class lesson support, what are they doing to help her in unstructured times? Is there a trusted staff member she can go to for a chat?

Take in a copy of the Human Givens checklist. Go through it together and see which of her basic needs aren’t being met. Everyone pitch in to suggest ideas for how these needs can be met (and don’t forget to include her!).

best of luck 💐

And self-confidence - ok what can they put in place to help her with this? Give her a position of responsibility? Ask her to mentor younger children? Or lead a lunchtime group on a topic or activity of her choice? Again - write on her 1 page profile that teachers should be giving specific praise and feedback. Praise effort not just outcome. Can she have a 5 min check in at the end of the day with a trusted staff member to go through three things she’s proud of that day?

I'm so sorry you're going through this OP, the school don't sound very proactive about helping. Have you had any contact with the SENDCo? Support should be based on needs not diagnosis so they are completely wrong about that.

Things they could be doing that would potentially help:
-Clear lesson objectives written at the start of each lesson (should be doing this anyway)
-Movement breaks half way through the lesson so everyone can re-focus
-Writing down correct answers at some point during the lesson so that she definitely gets the correct information
-Removing distractions from the front of the classroom or at least from the space immediately around the whiteboard
-Seating her at the front and giving careful thought to who she sits with

It may be worth quietly visiting some of the other potential schools nearby and asking specific questions about support for additional needs. You may find yourself pleasantly surprised by one of them. (Be prepared to be brushed off by several though.)

Can anyone accompany you to the meeting on Friday? DD's dad, your mum, a trusted friend? If not, don't be afraid to note down what they say as you go.

Thank you so much, that's exactly what I needed. I'll look into what you've suggested and be making a list. Her dad will be joining me on Friday, we aren't together but are still very much a team when it comes to her.

I will also explore other schools, I suppose it's good to have options. The best on paper doesn't necessarily mean the best fit for her I can appreciate that.

Maybe stop grounding her and removing all her possessions?

If she's waiting an assessment, you are doing the wrong thing by punishing her in this way. You give her - quite literally - nothing left to lose because you've taken it all. Behaviour gets worse and you find yourselves in this circle which doesn't help anyone

So yes, the school are in the wrong. But so are you because your punishments do not work and ultimately make things worse

As others have said, she doesn’t need a diagnosis. Have a look at the IPSEA website which will give you a good understanding of the law around this, the duty to make reasonable adjustments. It is based on need, not diagnosis. You don’t need to punish her at home, you would potentially be punishing her because she has a disability.

the SENCO needs to read the code of practice, which she undoubtedly has in her office propping open a door - clearly never read!

The school sounds awful. I would be looking at moving school to one with a good reputation for SEN.

BTW the school sound absolutely shocking. Penalising a child for not being able to finish work on time when they are on the ADHD pathway is awful. Your poor child, constantly in detention for things she can't control. Every day must be shocking for her. If this were my child they would be getting both barrells at that meeting and I would be moving her as soon as humanly possible. Why have you left her in this school for so long?

Youi have had good advice about the immediate meeting. i just wanted to say something about alternative schools. Sometimes - not always, but sometimes - the 'best' schools in terms of public perception / academic ranking are actually the worst in terms of dealing with children with additional needs or who do not fit their image.

However, the converse is definitely not true, as in the schools that are low in terms of public perception / ranking are NOT guaranteed to be good with children with additional needs! They may well be swamped with children with SEN, challenging home lives and who display difficult behaviour in school.

The best option, if you do want to look at other options, is to call alternative schools and have an open and honest discussion with a senior leader and the SENCo. Ask for a tour, looking not necessarily for what you are shown, but perhaps the places and classes that you are not being shown. Ask to be put in touch with parents of children with similar needs who attend that school, and also speak to anyone involved with your DD's diagnosis pathway to ask where they have found children with ADHD have thrived in terms of the local schools.

Can i also suggest look into a private diagnosis if you can afford it..

My ds was a different child once diagnosed with adhd.. that was the end of year 5.. every year got more challenging.

Is she falling behind ? My ds would give up rather than admit he can't do it.then be the class clown to distract.

My favourite question followed by a steady eye gaze is

"Why do you think she's behaving like this? Do you think it's making her happy?".

They'll admit she isn't happy which means you can then go straight in with "well what plans have you in please to rectify that?".

Put the ball in their court at all times. Otherwise they'll think your excusing her behaviour (we know you aren't). But it becomes you telling them what they are doing isn't working or that she's doing it because of x y and z.

Get them it recognise her struggles, tell you punishments don't work (duh!!!!!) and what they will put in place.

Also take with you sendcop on your phone. Show them that children can and should have support for any SEN (which is basically a need that means they aren't accessing education and doesn't require a diagnosis).

They may start threats such as exclusion. Just say to them if they do need to start going down that route then you want copies of all paperwork as it'll prove they can't meet her needs and support an ehcp application. (And you don't need a diagnosis for one of those either whatever they may try and tell you)

Thank you all for your replies.

And yes, I do agree that punishing her at home doesn't work either. But I am so bloody lost and worn down, it often at times feels like the only thing I have left. I'm also trying to cover all bases - what if they say she doesn't have ADHD? What if she really is just that child. I don't want to believe that and in my heart I don't, but it's hard, every day is a battle with her and at the moment with her school. I know there is something there. We are 9 months into the waiting list for assessment, a few days ago when chasing it they said its currently a 42 week wait, so hopefully it won't be much longer. If it is I'll definitely consider going private.

I'm taking note of all the helpful suggestions in terms of what to ask and take with me. I feel so angry at them right now, and tbh also myself. Hopefully I don't burst into tears 🥴**

Nothing wrong with crying!

I don’t always believe a “diagnosis” helps schools much. Either they have a strategy for an individual child or they don’t. They need to make an effort with every child. An experienced senco should really be able to suggest strategies without anyone else giving an opinion at this stage. Clearly any future info is possibly useful but they need to think about how she presents in school right now and come up with a strategy.

I would also talk to other schools. Apart from not finishing work, what else is causing detentions? What is her bad behaviour? Just being late? Or is there more poor behaviour to add to her annoying traits?

Could she have dyspraxia? Sounds just like my son, laid back horizontal, disorganised, forgetful and exasperating tbh. He was ok in Primary because he was contained in one room with a teacher constantly prodding and nagging to keep him on track. In secondary, couldn't remember his timetable, couldn't find one of half a dozen copies he'd start the week with or his pencil case, his locker key, possibly his bag and then he'd roam the corridors looking for where he should be. When he got to class he couldn't find his book or pencil case, might not have remembered his homework and then daydreamed the lesson away.
Outside of classes he had lots of friends and a great sense of humour and could laugh at himself but the disorganisation and the forgetfulness drove me potty.

My DD has ADHD. What you describe sounds very much like (inattentive) ADHD. It gets worse once hormones kick in. If so - she must literally hate school and being punished constantly for the way she is and her brain works. The school don't seem interested in supporting you.

There's a free cheap books on girls & adhd which list and explain what goes on.

@TizerorFizz it is mostly just being late, or not completing enough work, forgetting to get her PE kit from her locker etc. It isn't things like causing a scene in class, being cheeky to teachers etc.

@hiredandsqueak this sounds exactly like her.. I've never even considered Dyspraxia, my niece is diagnosed with that and I thought it was more to do with coordination etc, that's interesting though. She doesn't struggle with her fine motor skills however she is incredibly clumsy and hates any sort of physical challenge, I had to hold her hand and tell her where to place her feet for her next step while walking across some rocks on the beach while my 7 year old ran on! I'll do a bit more reading on that as I'm not the most clued up on the markers for it.

Thanks @Feetache I'll have a look for it. And yeah, she does hate it. At the moment it very much feels like they're treating her as guilty until proven innocent. She's the villain until she has a diagnosis. But she needs support now no matter the status of that. The only thing they put in place last year after the teachers all filled in their ADHD questionnaires was letting her go to the Sensory workshop every 2 weeks in school 😖that's it. Every 2 weeks she was allowed to go there and bounce around on space hoppers or lie under a weighted blanket for an hour. Nothing actually practical in terms of helping her in the areas she struggles with.