Headteacher meeting, awaiting diagnosis

[WitsHaveEnded]

I'll try and keep this as short as possible without missing anything.

DD 13, just gone into year 9. Horrendous year last year, constantly late to school, detentions, on report for 3/4 of the year, truanting lessons, not completing work, but generally well behaved (their words). Countless phone calls from the school during the day, meetings with the year head and deputy head. She is not even 2 weeks into year 9, has already been put in Inclusion, and they've called me 9 times. Yesterday they said that "there is a waiting list of girls wanting to get into this school and she clearly doesn't want to be here", and today I've been called while at work to be asked to come in Friday AM to meet with the headteacher. Meaning an unplanned day off work for me.

She has nothing. All devices have been taken off her, she is grounded. Absolutely nothing gets through to her. I am out of words and ways to explain how her behaviour is affecting her and me. I've talked calmly, screamed, shouted, cried. She has been in counselling, currently been waiting since January for ADHD assessment, school are aware of both things, yet I feel like they are trying to "off roll" her out of there without them ever putting any sort of behavioral plan in place or proactively trying to manage her behaviour in school. Everything just results in detention, or inclusion, which they've admitted don't work, or calling me for what seems like just a chance to complain about her being late to lessons. Other than me quitting work and volunteering to chaperone her to each lesson how do I manage that?

I've been told a behavioural plan can only be done with a diagnosis. Is this true? I was under the impression it wasn't needed. While in general I agree she is a nightmare, I am at a loss right now as to what more I should be doing than what I already am.

What questions should I be asking when I meet with the Head? I don't want to be steamrolled the minute I sit down.

Any advice for a very worn down Mum would be much appreciated 😪

I’m not sure whether this has been mentioned as I haven’t read the whole thread but have you heard I’d SENDIASS. You will have a rep close to you who can accompany you to the meeting and kick the schools’s arse if need be. I’ll try and send you a link…
councilfordisabledchildren.org.uk/what-we-do-0/networks/information-advice-and-support-services-network/find-your-local-ias-service

I meant have you heard of SEND IASS?

Excellent female presentation specialist private diagnosis
www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/diagnosticservices

@WitsHaveEnded yes my son’s fine motor skills were fine as well but he was always falling off his bike, bumping into things, knocking things over. Puberty was the worst time because as he grew he seemed to need to readjust where he finished and ended all the time so he didn’t automatically know that he’d knock something over because he was bigger than previously. Now as an adult, he’s still forgetful but he uses his phone for reminders for everything and he has systems and routines to ensure he keeps on top of everything but the clumsiness went once he stopped growing and matured.

@WitsHaveEnded
I would strongly query whether any of what your DD does should result in continual punishment. What is the point? What does your school’s Behaviour Policy say? What is it’s punishment strategy? Plus what is it’s SEND policy? I totally see it’s annoying but it’s not punishing isn’t a strategy to help. Who supervises these? What is the point of them?

The issues you describe aline with dyslexic

the time keeping, day dreaming, forgetfulness, losing things, being late, not completing work are all dyslexia traits.

These can be reading/writing/spelling/short term memory and time keeping.

Theres a ceiling for each child and she may have reached hers. Please look at the 36 signs of dyslexia. It’s an eye opener.

There’s loads the school could do and missing breaks and detention aren’t it.

www.dyslexia.com/about-dyslexia/signs-of-dyslexia/test-for-dyslexia-37-signs/

@Threelittlelambs
The big question in my mind is why the school cannot (will not) start to help this DD.m with strategies. This cannot be the only incidence of these traits? They have a duty to do so. Yes, these behaviours are annoying but SEND often is. I would look closely at their policy on Send and hold them to account. If a child cannot complete work because they are not getting help, punishment is not appropriate.

I would look at other schools. I suspect this one doesn’t want some types of DC.

OP i just wanted to reassure you that you can use all the techniques that work for children with adhd, even if your child turns out not to have adhd. They arent harmful and work with neurotypical children too. Have a good look at things that can help with adhd and just start doing it.

I would say the same to the school. Support should be needs led. If adhd techniques work for her then they should go for it as the ordinary techniques are not working. Its 100% clear what they are doing isnt working so what have they got to lose?

This sounds exactly like my eldest DS at 13/14 who was eventually diagnosed with ADHD at 17. I’m not criticising as I was where you were but I wish I hadn’t put my energies into punishing him for what was actually quite low level stuff (hindsight etc) and instead on to pressuring the school to do more for him. They did once he had diagnosis but only just a few months before he was due to finish. I didn’t realise that you can ask for an IDP without a diagnosis but you have evidence of being on ADHD pathway etc.
@Leonarar and others have given good advice especially the poster who advised looking the school/teacher in the eye asking them what THEY are going to do for DD.
Our school is very academic but have actually stepped up with SEN support (my third DS has dyspraxia/ASD all recently diagnosed) but I’ve had to keep the pressure on. Good luck!

Google

Ipsea
Sossen

They will tell you of your legal rights on unlawful exclusions and off rolling.

If your dd does have ADHD you need to arm yourself with her legal rights. Maybe think about ehcp and appealing for one if needs be. You do not legally need a diagnosis.

Don't take anything school say as gospel. Unfortunately schools do not understand the laws around SEN and the send code of practice.

Eg I had a senco tell me my child had to be two years behind for a ehcp and another tell me that at 15 no EP would see my child. Both utter BS and unlawful

I would think about moving schools if there is a better alternative that may cope with how she is. Perhaps ask the nearby schools if they would be better for her.

The school I went to was selective. I couldn't cope with the work load. I could cope with the content but not all the extra homework they gave. I got punished over and over. Detentions constantly for not doing work but then not being allowed to complete homework in the detention therefore allowing less time for that evenings homework and a continuous cycle of despair. Eventually it ended up with lunch time detentions as well and being sent out the classroom when I was disruptive because I was so stressed by the situation but couldn't explain why I was like I was.

It knocked my confidence and affected my exam results. As I was bright (hence the selective school) I got my exam passes but I had to spend most of my early 20's recovering my confidence that I wasn't all the school made me out to be. I wish so much my parents had moved me. I can still recall now I'm late 30's being told I got yet another detention and by the end feeling a sense of 'whatever' and giving up.
It doesn't actually teach you anything being punished over and over, a one off detention yes but just keep punishing over and over achieves nothing. Just that you're the one who can't seem to get things right.
I'd definitely try to move her and use your own parental instincts with your dc to consider which schools may be better.

I'd also consider whether or not punishing at home on top of school is the best move. Perhaps counselling may help as well resolve what your dd is feeling as it doesn't sound like she's articulating it well.

Hi op, I just wanted to say that I hope the meeting goes as well as possible, and to be kind to yourself afterwards. I know that after school meetings about DC’s SEN, even positive ones, I feel wiped out and ground down- never mind the negative ones! I’ve learned to do something nice afterwards - DH and I often do a sort of debrief lunch date that lets us talk out all the feelings from the meeting and gradually move on to pleasanter topics. I know you mentioned an unplanned day off, so if you’re not straight back to work maybe treat yourself to lunch, or a coffee, or a long walk or swim, or a long bath or a stupid movie? Maybe you’re the type of person to find more comfort from making an action plan and lots of phone calls straight away but you sound really at the end of your tether, and it might help to spend at least some of your day off doing something for you.

I also wanted to say that I sympathise with feeling like you can’t let up on discipline at home because maybe there is no ‘excuse’ for the behaviour, and feeling like you have to try something. I’ve definitely been there. I think it’s not helpful when posters tell you off for that and try to make you feel bad, because you already feel bad! I wonder if you could try this weekend to do an activity just you and DD that you both enjoy, as a sort of reset? Sometimes that helps us- doing the nice thing anyway and remembering that we’re a family and work together.

@PatienceHeatherstone oh you have set off the waterworks again 🥺 I really am at breaking point with it all, wondering where I went so wrong, constantly beating myself up as a parent for my choices and actions. I try my best but some days it just doesn't feel enough does it.

I certainly will try and do something for myself afterwards, thank you for your kind words ❤️

I'm going to spend the day reading through any legislation and policy I can find to back me up tomorrow. Must be strong and fight for her whatever the reasons and outcome, she can't do it herself after all.

I will of course update after the meeting in the morning also.

Sorry op, didn’t mean to make you cry! You are doing your very best for her, clearly.

I find IPSEA often have some nice quotable paragraphs that you can borrow. Schools seem to sit up and notice! No need to update unless it helps you xx

She has now just come home from an afternoon school detention, to tell me that their response to her being attacked by another student (an ex friend) on the last day of year 8 is to separate them in their lessons.... by moving my daughter DOWN a set and leaving the girl who attacked her where she is. Excuse me? How is that right? What assessment have they possibly done not even 2 weeks into the new year to come to the conclusion that she must be moved down?

Also had another call this afternoon to let me know that she was 6 minutes late to a lesson, for that she has another hour long detention tomorrow.

You're doing great op. Anyone can be wise with hindsight, the causes of all this remain to be seen and if the school keep repeating strategies that aren't working because ultimately the root cause isn't your daughter is naughty then it's good everyone realises that. They should want to work with you.

@WitsHaveEnded
One thing that occurs to me is why she doesn’t have a “buddy” to copy regarding collecting books snd moving on to the next class. What is she doing when the others are already in class? Is she in an empty corridor? Can you find out what she is doing on her own? She must now know what will happen so does she just accept it?

I think I would be giving up at this point. Look at other schools.

@TizerorFizz I've asked her that many times and again today when she finally didn't shrug her shoulders. She said "what's the point in even going to class I'm just gonna get screamed at for not finishing the work so might as well not go and get a detention for that instead" 🥺

You need to change schools for your daughter to have a fresh start. This school sounds horrible

@WitsHaveEnded
That was what I was thinking. This is a cycle of events that needs breaking.

The school sound horribly harsh on a child that is clearly struggling. My DD with ADHD has appalling organisational skills. She'd be late every day if her mates didn't come round and help her. She's gone today and left all her books at home. She'll get a reminder but also some leeway.

Possibly too late for your meeting.
Ask about the PSP (personal support plan) which if they have this many concerns should be well and truly in place. It sets out what they expect, what support she can expect and what she should be doing if things start to go wrong. Objectives have to follow a set pattern and be achievable (not pie in the sky that she can't possibly achieve)
If the school feel that it's gone further than that , it will be a FPSP (final personal support plan)
Also contact your local authority and ask to speak to the fair access team, they can signpost you to what should be happening and guide you through the process if you do want to apply for another school.
All of the above doesn't need a diagnosis. Also contact sendias for advice.
They can't off roll her... Do not agree to home educate, reduced timetable or anything of the like.
Ask for an appointment with the sendco at school and find out what their plans are to support her whilst she is on the diagnosis pathway.

It is blindingly obvious school is not the right enviroment for your daughter, the way they are dealing with it causes more damage than good.
My friends daughter has really struggled at school, she is now volunteering in a local cattery until appoibtment with CAHMS, and its like shes a completely different person. Sometimes a temp interruption from school enviroment is the best cure, she can sit her exams at any age.

appointment