No grammars and can’t afford private - how to help gifted son

[KimGa]

We live in Surrey. There are no grammar schools here. My son is a gifted at maths (I just found out he got full marks in all end of year 5 maths tests which apparently no other child has done at his state junior in 23 years). He’s also a keen sportsman and well above average in all other subjects.

I wish I could send him to private school so that he can be stretched and reach his full potential, but our annual just income won’t stretch to it. Round here private schools cost about 7k a term. Our annual household income is 70k, which just covers mortgage, bills and 1 UK holiday a year. Private school would need a third of our income. 70k is just above the annual income that entitles us to any kind of private school bursary, from what I have read. Does anyone have any advice?

We are trying to move to get in the catchment of an outstanding secondary state school in Surrey before applications need to be in this autumn, (our house is under offer) but we basically can’t afford a 3 bed house (2 dc) in the area.

I really want to send him to a great school but I don’t think it’s going to happen. He’s going to get stuck going to the failing local comp. Does anyone have any advice about what else I could try? Really need to stay Surrey for jobs. Or should I be unconcerned because he’ll do well anywhere?

Either ring the private schools and enquire about each school's bursary (each school can have a slightly different criteria), look at whether you are in the catchment for Reading boys grammar (that covers some of Surrey but depends which bit of Surrey you are looking at) or use any spare money for clubs etc.

My friend’s son is at a private school and the parents don’t pay a penny (they bring in around £80k a year. He has an academic and sport scholarship (not sure about the nursery side of things).

I have no idea about independent schools I’m afraid but loads of people here do and should be able to help.

Most of the country doesn't have grammar schools, and kids do just fine if their comp is decent.
When you say 'failing local comp' can I just check what your definition of failing is?

So Ofsted Inadequate I would agree maybe try to avoid, though depends on the reasons.
However 65% getting 5 GCSEs grade 5-9 incl English and Maths would not be failing, even if results look poor compared with grammars.

Look at the reality of your local schools, where would he have a chance of getting into (admissions info is published by your LA). You've left it late to move house however.

This might be a useful thread: depending on whereabouts you are in surrey, tiffin or the Croydon/Sutton options might be with considering. .

www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/2380902-Surrey-grammar-schools-best-place-to-live link

Apply to RGS. They have a massive campaign going at the moment to give 100% bursaries to any local (Surrey should cover it) boy who is bright enough to pass. It is a private school but it isn't elitist and they do massive fundraising drives to increase these bursaries year on year. Definitely worth a look.

Depending where you are in Surrey you could also apply to Tiffin grammar, Sutton Grammar, Wallington and Wilson's - all within reach of East Surrey.

This is a list of all the secondary schools in Surrey.

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=936&la-name=surrey&geographic=la&for=secondary

I have two very able DC, both doing brilliantly in our local comprehensive school.
There are lots of opportunities for enrichment online - for example mine are enrolled on the Maths Masterclass programme run by Simon Singh and they also use the Nrich maths resources.
Try not to panic - able kids can do fantastically well in state schools.

None of those look particularly like 'failing' if you consider their Progress 8 scores.

(Except Carrington)

Try for a scholarship at Private (we got 25%) but be realistic with your son about his chances
If he ends up at Comp just be as supportive and involved as possible and pay for tutors if necessary

If he is bright he will be in top sets and get great teaching anyway so honestly I wouldn't stress

Private school may not be the best option now that universities are looking much more to state school pupils.

I'd talk to any nearby private schools about scholarships AND a bursary.

Yes from our current address we’ll only get in to one of the 2 near the bottom of that list - ‘average’.

We have been trying to move since the beginning of the year but keep losing out in best and final offers. Considering going through with sale and going into a rental in the great catchment but monthly rent will eat into our capital so when we try to buy again in 12 months we will likely be in a worse position.

We are near the RGS and that is who I was referring to regarding no bursaries for those earning over 60k. Can you link to anything to do with the campaign?

You say you have 2 children, if one gets in private can you afford for the other to go?

My brother was sent to private as he was "gifted" turns out we all were but he was the oldest so recognised first. Me and my sister were sent to the local comp as my parents couldn't afford all 3, where we did really well, but not as well as we could have done. I'd say our sibling relationship has been tainted by this.

Could you look to see if anywhere near you has any 'super selective' schools. Bromley in Kent has St Olaves which is not a fee paying school but you have to pass an exam to get into it.

Unless your local comprehensive school is really bad, to the point where teaching is disrupted and it is an unpleasant place to spend time, I really wouldn't worry too much. Most bright children have far less need of private school resources and attention than more average kids, so long as they have encouragement at home, and find at least some like-minded friends. It's very easy to "stretch" a bright child - far harder to help a struggling one. Plus University admissions now take into account average exam marks at schools attended, which can actually be a disadvantage to kids going to very high performing schools like super-selective grammars.

There will be someone coming along soon stating that bright children do well regardless of what school they go to (not true!).

We had both our children at private school and I dont regret it for a moment. I went to a standard comp and to say the expectations were low is an understatement. I often wonder how much better I would have done if I had been stretched!

As pp have said, there is no reason why your son would not be stretched at a non selective state school. In my career in state schools I've taught very gifted children and have seen many go on to Oxbridge. As a non selective state school, we actually get more into Oxbridge than the local (very expensive) private school. So don't discount what is on offer at no cost.

Which part of Surrey? If the east side consider Whitgift/Trinity in Croydon whose bursary pots are pretty generous. He may not get a bursary at some of the others but Sports and Academic awards can be combined.

Just to note. I'm coming from the perspective of someone who 1) makes Oxbridge admissions decisions 2) has kids who went to the Reading super-selectives with zero tutoring but who saw their peers do just as well at the local comp 3) was easily in top 0.1% kind of territory back in the day (before my brain rotted...) and did more than fine at the local comp.

Hmm, so you say your child is gifted and got 100% in his various maths tests. But then your immediate response is to remove him from an environment he is doing well in and put him into one he may or may not do well in.

He is also above average at most things including sport. TBH he sounds like a well grounded allround good egg. But i cant get my head around the need to change things. Why not speak to the existing school and ask them how they can stretch him. Get him a maths tutor you can afford and really push him (At his own pace). That way you dont stretch your family, you dont effect siblings by moving them away from a place they are happy and quite possibly you may be able to afford to help his siblings in the same way if needed.

Possibly read the competitive parents posts elsewhere too

Just a word of caution re his y5 maths results. My DS was also considered to be gifted at maths in Y5 and Y6. He was the first child in the history of his school to achieve a gold medal in the national school maths competition. He passed the 11 plus and went to grammar. He was put in top set based on his Y6 sats but found himself in a class full of amazing mathematicians. These kids didn't even need teaching the curriculum - they already knew it so the teacher skipped ahead far too fast for my DS to keep up.

He was so miserable that we asked for him to be put down a set. Then he would be put back up after a few end of term tests and would be miserable again. In the end we instructed the school to leave him in the second set where he was happy.

A decent comp will put him in top set and I'm sure he will thrive. If you look around any state schools see if they take part in any national maths awards as they may give extra lunchtime lessons to prepare for those.