No grammars and can’t afford private - how to help gifted son

[KimGa]

We live in Surrey. There are no grammar schools here. My son is a gifted at maths (I just found out he got full marks in all end of year 5 maths tests which apparently no other child has done at his state junior in 23 years). He’s also a keen sportsman and well above average in all other subjects.

I wish I could send him to private school so that he can be stretched and reach his full potential, but our annual just income won’t stretch to it. Round here private schools cost about 7k a term. Our annual household income is 70k, which just covers mortgage, bills and 1 UK holiday a year. Private school would need a third of our income. 70k is just above the annual income that entitles us to any kind of private school bursary, from what I have read. Does anyone have any advice?

We are trying to move to get in the catchment of an outstanding secondary state school in Surrey before applications need to be in this autumn, (our house is under offer) but we basically can’t afford a 3 bed house (2 dc) in the area.

I really want to send him to a great school but I don’t think it’s going to happen. He’s going to get stuck going to the failing local comp. Does anyone have any advice about what else I could try? Really need to stay Surrey for jobs. Or should I be unconcerned because he’ll do well anywhere?

If you are in Guildford, then I might understand your issues. I would expect both Guildford County and George Abbot to be good for a bright pupil - they regularly get pupils going to Oxbridge, for example. The rather odd catchment rules for each aren’t helpful though. Despite them being our closest two schools we were offered neither and have gone private (RGS) instead. The head of RGS has stated on numerous occasions his goal of making school places available to all bright boys regardless of income, so I would agree with the previous poster that it is well worth a call to the school to discuss your situation.

If your child is gifted the main concern in a state school is bullying. This can lead to the child pulling back on their work to get lower grades so the bullying will stop. Worst case he will have a terrible time at school. I agree he needs to be in a school where achievement is valued and the average standard is higher. No advice to offer sorry but don’t let anyone tell you that bright kids do ok in a state comp - they do not.

Yep we’re in Guildford and won’t get County or George Abbot from our current address.

Infant and Junior options have been great and I’ve been happy with the state options until now when it comes to secondary.

I will give RGS a call.

I think it's fair to say, @Suddha, that bullying does occur at private schools as well.

Kings College Guildford is absolutely ok. I have friends who have children there and they are doing really well. You can always start him off there and get in the waitlist for GA or GCS if you wish. But he is doing well at a state primary so he should be fine in a state secondary.

but don’t let anyone tell you that bright kids do ok in a state comp - they do not Surely that depends on the school, and to a certain extent the kid? Of course they won't necessarily always thrive, but I certainly wouldn't assume they won't either. I know plenty who have done extremely well. Sometimes after transferring from a private school as they weren't happy. I know of very few bright kids who have struggled in any way at a comp, but do know some middle of the road or weaker kids who have benefited hugely from the additional time and attention given at a private school.

Who knows. However, it is fair to say that times have changed, and all state schools are measured now on progress and you can check the results.
Every school I've ever worked in has stretched bright children.

My children were both educated in the state system in Surrey. No complaints about how DS1 did, & DS2 who is very academic was exceptionally well supported by his school (for ezample allowing him to take an extra GCSE). After his gap year DS2 is taking a place at Oxford this autumn.

I don't believe DS2 would have done better going private.

@KimGa I have a son at the RGS. I don't know how to post a link but if you look on the RGS website under the "support us" heading at the top of the page you'll find info on the campaign. Hope that helps.

He should do well in any school, if he is really that good he will be outstripping his teachers pretty soon. Longer term check out the Olympiads and Kings College Maths.

Scholarship

You can look into scholarships for private schools.

From my experience motivated and bright children do well most places generally though. I think it’s the middling children that can be overlooked.

My dses have been through the local below average comp. Ds1 got 9’s at gcse, A*’s at A level and is now at Oxford university, Ds2 did similarly well at GCSE, is predicted A’s at A level and will hopefully be going to UCL this year.

To be fair the school has been awesome and they did really support and push both my dses so don’t write off a school because of exam results, that’s far from the full picture.

@stratforduponavon I don't think anyone saying this: There will be someone coming along soon stating that bright children do well regardless of what school they go to (not true!)
Some people, such as @Maireas in some excellent posts, are saying that bright children can and do well in comprehensive schools. Private or grammar are not the only options fir a bright student, which is worth saying. Mate of ds2's is ace at maths, was well supported and challenged at their state comp and is now at Cambridge.

And while children may do well in private, there is no way of knowing how they might have done in state. Let's not make this a private v state debate.

Thank you, @clary, and good point about the private v state debate.

If your son is 'gifted' he will be fine wherever he goes.

But don't ignore your other child.

My elder brother was very 'gifted', won a scholarship to a private school where he was bullied for being 'the scholarship kid'. My sibling and I went to the local comp which was a shitehole and did fine.

My dd got full marks in maths throughout including GCSE, some kids are very good at maths. State schools can cater for him

@Suddha

My dd got a*'s from her comp in special measures. Kids can do well anywhere

I agree with all of the others, apply for a bursary/scholarship. DD was accepted to our local very popular private school & no fees at all to pay. She did however decide she didn't want to go, as she absolutely loved a state school we did visit & she ended up there instead. There were a few things about the private school that did put me off too, in that a friend whose DS was there on a scholarship, was really struggling with the immense pressure the school put on her to join in & volunteer in the school, hence why we let DD choose.

In the end, the state school did way better on exam results than the state school too. A good state school with great SN & gifted programs, & classes streamed to abilities, can be a better fit, as we found out. So I'd look more closely at your state schools too

Urgh,

The state school did way better than the private one she nearly went too

Getting good grades doesn’t mean the child had a good school experience. I got A* grades at a state school. I was also miserable, had the shit beaten out of me regularly and attempted suicide on one occasion. I was called a swot and ostracised for getting good grades. My friend went to a private school where achievement was applauded and it was a whole different ball game. His final grades weren’t as good as mine but he had a much better school experience.

The local schools will have measures in place for gifted and talented kids. Have a look at their prospectuses to see what they have in place. All grammars do, is take off the top percentage of the kids. In n9n-grammar areas, these study at normal schools.

Private schools don’t always equate to a higher academic ability.

If you were prepared to move you could apply to QE Boys in North London. It's a state grammar without catchment. My son goes there. It is an excellent school for really bright, competitive boys who like sport. Register for the exam by 15th July. Even a very bright boy would need tutoring. There are other grammar schools that will take a handful of boys out of catchment. There's no sibling rule so you might need another option for your 2nd child.

And yet the country is full of children who go to state comps and get top grades. 🤔

@Suddha and my friend was bullied in private school. Anacdata is just that. Or do you really believe that your experience is universal? In areas w no grammar schools most children go to comprehensive schools and many of those (most ime) have a very positive attitude towards attainment.

Getting good grades doesn’t mean the child had a good school experience. I got A grades at a state school. I was also miserable, had the shit beaten out of me regularly and attempted suicide on one occasion. I was called a swot and ostracised for getting good grades. My friend went to a private school where achievement was applauded and it was a whole different ball game. His final grades weren’t as good as mine but he had a much better school experience.

I'm so sorry you went through that @Suddha, but not all comprehensives are that crap dealing with bullying.

I was worried to death about bullying in HS as DD had been bullied all through primary. Her state Comp were brilliant & took no nonsense with bullies & some very clever tactics too, that school was the making of her & healed all she'd been through & built her confidence back up. Conversely we have a girls grammar here that no local will touch with a barge pole as it has a terrible reputation for bullying