No grammars and can’t afford private - how to help gifted son

[KimGa]

We live in Surrey. There are no grammar schools here. My son is a gifted at maths (I just found out he got full marks in all end of year 5 maths tests which apparently no other child has done at his state junior in 23 years). He’s also a keen sportsman and well above average in all other subjects.

I wish I could send him to private school so that he can be stretched and reach his full potential, but our annual just income won’t stretch to it. Round here private schools cost about 7k a term. Our annual household income is 70k, which just covers mortgage, bills and 1 UK holiday a year. Private school would need a third of our income. 70k is just above the annual income that entitles us to any kind of private school bursary, from what I have read. Does anyone have any advice?

We are trying to move to get in the catchment of an outstanding secondary state school in Surrey before applications need to be in this autumn, (our house is under offer) but we basically can’t afford a 3 bed house (2 dc) in the area.

I really want to send him to a great school but I don’t think it’s going to happen. He’s going to get stuck going to the failing local comp. Does anyone have any advice about what else I could try? Really need to stay Surrey for jobs. Or should I be unconcerned because he’ll do well anywhere?

Visit the comps! You need to get a feel for them, you may end up loving them. Don't judge them on Ofsted reports or local reputation.

Don’t panic.
options

1. phone your local comprehensives and ask about their support/ enrichment for the highest achievers.


2. Phone private schools and enquire re bursaries and scholarships.


3. consider moving to an area with grammars


4. get a maths tutor /other enrichment activities to go alongside the comprehensive offering

A bright, motivated child with parents supporting them will make the most of opportunities available to them - doesn’t necessarily need to be in a private school.

I’ve got one DS at private school and one at the local (very good) comp. We did offer private to DS2 but he wanted to be with his mates.

DS1 is dyslexic which is why we chose private, he’s on a sports scholarship and benefits from the small classes.

DS2 is thriving at the local comp. Honestly, I think the teaching is better than at the private school. The teachers are more accountable. DS2 is in the top sets here which gives him lots of confidence and they do stretch them. But it’s not all about pressure and tests and results which it is at the local grammar.

Behaviour and bullying far worse at the grammar. People moving their children to the comp..

So it’s not all clear cut. Not all comps are bad and many bright children will do very, very well.

We are also using a maths tutor just to make sure he’s stretched and gets pre-taught lots of concepts. That’s an option?

I'm not sure what the point is of challenging kids in these circumstances with advanced materials. My own view is that he will find maths easy but should focus on all the other things he is less good at because he is a kid. He will be challenged in those areas. Getting an A Level in maths at 13 or so might sound fantastic, but it is utterly pointless and distracts from the rest of growing up.

The point is that they enjoy it. My dd is at a super selective, and was saying how much she loves the fast pace and the way they have time to explore way beyond the curriculum. They have much shorter lessons than other local schools (35 minutes, rather than an hour or more) so cover more subjects in a day, too. For a bright DC, this speed and variety is fun and stimulating.

And there plenty of are DC who are going to find every subject easy up to GCSE level, so you can’t assume challenge in other subjects. That’s partly why selective private schools have a lot of music, drama and sport - these add challenge, for DC that thrive on it.

I had a very bright child - made crazy progress at primary school - full marks in sats in year 6 for everything and greater depth for everything.

started at a grammar school passed the exam with 100% - and flew.

then we moved to the other side of the country and she went in an outstanding comprehensive school and she started in lockdown. Trying to get them to see how bright she was - was like pulling teeth - they were like ‘not all about results, it’s about depth and breath - no we won’t enter her early we don’t do that etc’ - fortunately I had contacts locally so she sat a few GCSEs in year 9 at a private school as an external candidate and got level 9 although there were no exams - she did the same assessments as year 11.
this year she has done 2 a levels again at the same private school and predicted A*.

in the meanwhile the head of the comp rang me with an apology a year ago and said ‘5 of her teachers have seen me in the last week and all of them say she has reached level 9 and completed the course and is treading water.

fortunately mine is year 10 - but she wants to move private for sixth form but a local private school has offered her a maths scholarship for sixth form.

she now has a mentor for various subjects.

My daughter teaches herself though.

is he self driven? If you give him an old ks3 maths sats paper can he do it? I brought my daughter all
the cgp books and she finished them in like 2 weeks. I’d try that first, apply for a scholarship and then review.

If your child is that bright they will be fine anywhere in Surrey. Oxbridge and the like do like children who haven’t come from the private/grammar system. Otherwise I wonder why you didn’t think to move earlier? You could easily move to Tiffin/Sutton if it’s really that important? Or one of the good comps locally? Why not buy somewhere smaller? Ultimately my view is good kids do well wherever unless it’s some sink estate comp, which clearly your choices won’t be…

You need to find out about bursary’s. Get on that phone, ring around.

Ha! Yes. 🙄

I would send my child to any of these schools and not give it a second thought after seeing those results and P8! (Obviously there would be other factors to consider as well).

Compared to our local schools, we have 32% and 35% 5+ GCSE and P8 as -0.5 in our best schools!

Honestly @KimGa stop worrying. If you have to use the state you have nothing worry about, just make sure to investigate their G&T programmes.
But good luck with your hunt for private schools.

I was in your shoes. Very gifted DS, wrong side of Guildford for GCS and GA, reasonable income but not enough to fund private.
DS1 took the RGS exam just to give it a go really, having taken part in their outreach activities for primary schools. He was offered a scholarship and small bursary and we decided to take the place. Two years later did the same for DS2.
It was a big financial stretch, no holidays, watching every penny, small house somewhat falling apart.
But it was worth every penny and I would do it all again. The school is amazing and they have grown into fantastic young men. It's not just academic achievement, it's sports, music, clubs, attitude. RGS boys are absolutely not entitled as a previous poster suggested. I don't believe that they would have done so well or had such a great experience at any of the other Guildford schools.
Our financial position has improved a lot in the last couple of years and we're now able to contribute to the bursary funds so hopefully helping other local boys to have a similar experience.
It's definitely worth a go!

Totally agree with this post.

Hmmmm. I’ll tell that to my son and his friends who got 9s and 8s in their GCSEs at a very standard comp.

They may have had access to better facilities and more sophisticated extra curriculars at a fee paying school - which I’m sure would have been lovely to have, but there is no way they can be described as ‘not having done well’.

And another thing - I absolutely hate the myth that state schools aren’t aspirational and don’t push children, or indeed that bright kids are bullied for being bright and have to dumb down.

That many happen in some schools but it’s absolutely not been our experience, or that of my friends in a wide variety of state schools local
to me and further afield.

I have 2 in top sets for maths at our comp. There are always extra challenges available if they have time left. I know this because one reproduces them at the dinner table (he's very keen.) They both absolutely stormed the junior/intermediate maths challenges this year with pretty much no prep so I don't think they are falling behind anyone.

Top set in a year group of 300 is highly unlikely to be "lucky if they get to go to uni" territory. There were 4 of us who did double maths A level from my super-academic public school. I would bet a lot of money that more than 4 from my DCs' maths classes will do so.

Start by talking to your local schools.

Hi KimGa!

I know a Tutor who works with kids who are well ahead. Do let me know if you want their contact details.

Well your options are limited - accept the local school, push and scrimp for RGS or move to Sutton/Kingston etc. Its really quite simple. No magic alternative will present itself. Where I live there are countless people moving in all the time for the schools, it is a very normal thing to do.

I can't understand how people really believe that bright kids won't do well at state schools! As a pp upthread said, many state schools invest heavily in their brightest pupils - my ds at a leafy but fairly ordinary comp was certainly supported - he was/is a gifted Mathematician and the Maths department went out of their way to stretch him and give him lots of opportunities.
He is now at Oxford having got 11 straight 9's at GCSE, achieved Olympiad second round and been in the top 10% of all candidates taking the MAT in the year he applied. And is college is stuffed full of state school students.
Please go and look at the schools and talk to the heads of dept before making a decision - we COULD afford private for our ds but didn't send him because we actually liked the state school better and felt that he would be happy there and ultimately that's what is important.
Lastly, I don't know Surry well but I don't think all the state schools are failing - my 2 nephews went through the state system in Surrey and both ended up at Cambridge studying Physics and Medicine respectively.

OP, the fact that you have no grammar schools in the area means that the gifted and bright kids who are not from wealthy families are in… the comprehensives. In the top sets and heading for good results.

It’s tricky because in the end they are all working towards the same National Curriculum exams. My STEM powerhouse Dc wasn’t challenged by any of the curriculum in Maths, Further Maths, 3 sciences, BUT the school (Comprehensive) entered them for Royal Society competitions (regional and National) various extra curricular maths challenges, and Dc went independently to various lectures and events.

Research all the schools in your area. If there is one which especially supports your Ds’s specific talents, activities and aspirations, you stand a good chance of an appeal place.

i.e not ‘my child is a high achiever therefore must go to an ‘Outstanding’ school’, which isn’t an admissible argument, but ‘my child is gifted in Maths, takes part in this and that project, does extra curricular maths, has a telescope and studies astronomy and wants to be an astrophysicist, we need a place at X school because it has a busy Maths club, offers Further Maths at GCSE, enters students in extra curricular maths projects, and runs an astronomy club and a year 9 trip to CERN’. Or whatever.

(That Dc, educated at a comprehensive, now on course for a first in a science at a very highly regarded Uni)

I genuinely don't know where you see RGS boys behaving in an entitled way. I've been in Guildford when they are walking back to the station in the afternoon and they are considerate.. as much as any pedestrian in the High Street. My son has lovely friends, at RGS, who we're happy to have over to our house (8 for a birthday party) and to take out to sports events. They are absolutely not entitled and their parents work in normal, professional jobs and emphasise the importance of hard work, politeness and consideration.