No grammars and can’t afford private - how to help gifted son

[KimGa]

We live in Surrey. There are no grammar schools here. My son is a gifted at maths (I just found out he got full marks in all end of year 5 maths tests which apparently no other child has done at his state junior in 23 years). He’s also a keen sportsman and well above average in all other subjects.

I wish I could send him to private school so that he can be stretched and reach his full potential, but our annual just income won’t stretch to it. Round here private schools cost about 7k a term. Our annual household income is 70k, which just covers mortgage, bills and 1 UK holiday a year. Private school would need a third of our income. 70k is just above the annual income that entitles us to any kind of private school bursary, from what I have read. Does anyone have any advice?

We are trying to move to get in the catchment of an outstanding secondary state school in Surrey before applications need to be in this autumn, (our house is under offer) but we basically can’t afford a 3 bed house (2 dc) in the area.

I really want to send him to a great school but I don’t think it’s going to happen. He’s going to get stuck going to the failing local comp. Does anyone have any advice about what else I could try? Really need to stay Surrey for jobs. Or should I be unconcerned because he’ll do well anywhere?

Have you considered boarding?

There are state boarding schools, you only pay for the bed and board, the education is provided by the government.

It’s Surrey - the local school isn’t going to full of awful kids 🤦‍♀️

OP he could do y7-8 at local school and move to private y9? That would save you money. Then state again for sixth form when they tend to be more academic anyway.

he might find he thrives there and you can move him if not

Here's the RGS bursary form though I suspect you have seen it already.

It states anyone who has spent money on luxury cars, holidays or substantial home improvements recently isn't eligible. But I don't see anywhere that says 60k cut off point. No family could afford RGS on an annual income of 60k as their fees are now about 24k pa. So if they are truly trying to help boys who otherwise can't afford to consider the school, they should at least look at your individual circumstances.

FWIW, George Abbott has a great reputation so get on the waiting list even if you ar enot in catchment. Our DC were offered a terrible school three bus rides away that has since closed down, so we went private. A few days after they started we were offered places at an excellent state school a fair way from us that we'd put down as a long shot.

Look at sports and academic scholarships.

And chat personally to each school about bursary's.

Work out what you could afford to contribute and work from there in which schools you will apply for and could accept places at.

If he's genuinely gifted they'll snap him up!

It’s Surrey - the local school isn’t going to full of awful kids 🤦‍♀️

Why are Surrey kids less likely to bully I do hope it's not because you think it a more MC area, with non of those nasty rough poor kids, as that's what it sounds like. If so, you are incredibly naive & prejudice to boot.

Some do. We’ve just decided to send our eldest to state school as he seems likely to manage well there.

If he turns out to have additional needs we’ll look at moving him to the local private school.

I’m saying the opposite! Give the kids a chance.

I’m saying the opposite! Give the kids a chance

Apologies I totally agree with that. DDs worst bully was anything but working class, she was spoilt rotten with horses & other expensive stuff etc, but it became really obvious that she was jealous that DD always had my time whenever she needed or wanted it & hated her for it. Never had any problems with the council house kids though

but don’t let anyone tell you that bright kids do ok in a state comp - they do not
They do, here in Scotland we don't have the grammar system; you go to your catchment school, do you think all the kids fail? of course they don't!

Completely agree. I’ve heard stories about bullying in all schools - put 800+ kids in one place together state or private and sadly it will happen.

op can always move her kid if he is not stretched enough. Places do come up at private and state pre GCSEs.

Don't send him to private school in Guildford it's hard enough bringing up kids not spoilt such a wealthy town as it is!!

Kings is actually excellent for bright kids. IF he's as bright as you believe he'll do well wherever he goes.

And behaviour from local RGS boys is awful, they have no idea how to behave nicely in public, they act in a very entitled manner.

There are no grammar schools here, and I don’t know anyone at private, you go to the local high school. I know very bright kids doing incredibly well there and lots of less academically able also doing very well, enjoying school, happy, with local friends.

despite the school being ‘average’

I wouldn't stress either, my daughter got 100% in her Y5 and Y6 tests (lockdown so they were marked by teachers), she's doing great in top sets

Surrey, and specifically Guildford, definitely used to run a top-top set for gifted pupils in state schools. I know from personal experience, although that is forty years ago now. A quick look at the website shows that they are signposting gifted pupils to Potential Plus (potentialplusuk.org/).

Contact Potential Plus. Ask the junior school whether then consider he has Higher Learning Potential and whether they'd refer him for additional support to stretch his abilities. Note that Higher learning Potential is more than just acing one subject. Maxing out the maths test on its own doesn't necessarily make him gifted. But it should still be supported.

Mathematical Challenge amzn.eu/d/6B5Ei4c

this is quite a nice book to try at home. If you find it hard to go through it with him, consider getting a tutor (for maths and other subjects) - much cheaper and less disruptive than breaking the bank going to private school. Could think about him learning a language maybe?

I'm not from the area so maybe it's worlds apart but round here there are multiple bright kids doing amazingly well in average state schools. I'm surprised there are people stating as fact that it's not possible!

We worried about this. In sussex so similar demographic and no grammars. However my bright yr 7 DD has absolutely thrived in our local state school. Top sets with high academic standards in these sets, with high expectations for behaviour. They use a very good combination of praise and consequence points. I know less academic kids there who are also thriving and are celebrated for their attitude and effort. Yes there are children who behave (extremely) badly as they have no respect or regard for the rules or others but these are very much in the minority and its not a bad thing for my children to be aware these children/adults are around....

The thing about state (non-grammar) schools is that they tend to be incredibly invested in their highest achievers, so your DS would likely be absolutely fine and get lots of 'enrichment' if he continues to show promise in maths (and possibly other STEM subjects too).

And I would expect that a lot of the 'leafy' Surrey comprehensives in very naice areas have very bright pupils who do brilliantly academically. The majority of Oxbridge students come from London and the Home Counties. They can't all be privately educated.

Don't underestimate how well comprehensives look after their star pupils. It is the 'middling' ones who tend to be less well served.

I agree that a lot of State schools are very invested in their high achievers but with the best will in the world they often have very limited resources. They also may have a different idea about what constitutes “high achievers” than Private or Grammar schools. At my local State comp (which seems to drift in and out of Special measures) going to any Uni is seen as a great achievement, which to be fair for a lot of disadvantaged kids it is but at other schools it’s more of an expectation

In my kids state school sixth form 90% go to university and others are in great apprenticeship courses (arguably better - at Google etc).

hardly low expectations

Don't panic. The upside of no local grammar schools often means that you have a "true" comprehensive, with lots of super bright children. Generally in this case that means that children tend to be set for subjects such as maths and English, or added to a "grammar" stream. Sometimes being the best in a mixed ability setting affords your child more opportunity than being "just another bright child".

RGS has many good points but it isn't perfect and I wouldn't necessarily hold it out as the answer to all your problems. A "good enough" state school might be enough and then keep your money for extra tutoring, if needed - a good tutor can explore areas that your son enjoys in a very individual way, which will only help in the longer term with his university applications.

And that is a good State school, not everyone has access to one

Remember though that we're talking about Surrey here, one of the most affluent areas of the UK, and home of the Sunday Times voted best comprehensive of this past year!

Our catchment comp is deemed RI and my bright DC are doing more than fine. They're in top sets and receiving excellent, inspiring teaching with lots of extra curricular activities and opportunities.

The local grammars are (imo) overfocused on academics and neglect sport and practical and arts subjects. As academic as my DC are, they also need to gain other skills and experiences and have a more rounded experience.

There is no way I would send my DC to independent schools. Having been educated privately myself I am more than aware that bullying and poor behaviour is not unheard of just because parents can pay. My DC do an activity with a lot of privately educated DC and none of them behave, speak, act better than any others and a lot of the parents are v pushy and competitive and exhausting to be around - I don't need more of that in my life!

Don't assume private is automatically better. Going to your local comp means more independence, local friends, more time at home etc etc