Intimidating teacher

[chillie]

My son came home yesterday and told me that 8 boys including him in yr 10 were locked in a classroom with and by their chemistry teacher in clubs time until all the rubics cubes were handed in. After they were handed in she proceeded to shout at them that they had been disrespectful. When asked by one boy what was it that he had said or done to be disrespectful she unlocked the door and told them to all leave. She didn't answer him.
Today the same 8 boys were told by the head of year and an assistant headteacher that young female teachers can be intimidated by them and they should be more aware of how they behave.
This is in a super selective grammar school. All boys my son included can behave badly but I really feel that this was inappropriate to say to the boys. They are 14, all black or Asian and nobody shouted at her, swore or approached her. Surely if you are intimidated by teen boys then you don't take a job at an all boys secondary school?
My son who is not in her form tells me that other boys say she often locks the door, can't control the class and sometimes cries. I feel worried about this teacher, it doesn't sound like she is coping. I think she needs help. No teacher should need to lock the door, I would expect the teacher to have enough authority that the boys would not dare leave until given permission. Am I expecting too much?

Also, posters aren't saying that these boys are in a gang, they are responding to your comments about not being a teacher if you find 13 year old boys intimidating, by listing the things that 13 year olds do that are objectively intimidating.

Jesus wept at some of the comments of this thread. And then we wonder why we have entitled arrogant misogynistic arseholes in power. We wonder why wonder are raped or murdered or abused - because of course they should not be intimidated and if they are they have no reason doing any sort of employment nurses - don’t do it if someone threatens you and you can’t cope, same with vets, gps - violent arrogant entitled males are everywhere and they victim blame their educated informed victims. Jesus wept.

My daughter goes to an all girl private school - this is unheard of as Is parental complaints. She left there and went to a high achieving mixed school no issues there except from the boys treating her like meat out of classes. Ignoring her requests to be left alone she has been called a dyke, lesbian and bitch - all by boys. Welcome to our society.

14 year old boys are 6 ft now imagine they surround her laughing and mocking her and refusing to hand back items - I would be very surprised if she loved the door very surprised - are you sure that isn’t a story to defend their vile behaviour. And yes the fucking kids own their behaviour they choose to behave I bet for them 6 ft male teacher don’t they? Because she is only a woman

13 year olds can't be intimidating? 13 year olds can and do rape, and hit and stab. Not them all (obviously) but enough for them to be seen as intimidating, when they are choosing to be.
Teachers aren't people who aren't intimidated, mostly we're people who don't show that we are intimidated. Not the same thing. I would note that the teacher in the OP didn't say the boys were intimidating her, it was another member of staff.

If 13 year old boys intimidate you, you have no business being a teacher

😂😂

So in that sense women can only be abused by men if they’re older than them.
DV just doesn’t happen when the man is younger.

It’s this kind of attitude that makes 13 year old boys, most of which are taller and a bigger build than most female teachers, go out of their way to try and intimidate them.

[quote Frlrlrubert]@namethattunein1

The problem is that if you add 'never feeling intimidated' to the job description you weed out more people that you would consider 'not fit to teach', but you further decrease the pool of available teachers, which isn't particularly large to start with.

It's also further reduced if you add 'people willing to meet with parents in person every time a teenager thinks they didn't do nuffin'

Whereas if you set up a school so students know that sort of behaviour is unacceptable, and sanction appropriately, you have a wider range of people who can teach effectively.

Given the shortage of STEM teachers to start with. And the fact that even the scariest brick shithouse male teacher can't have eyes on 30 kids pouring acid at once, most schools opt for the latter, and try to support staff with good behaviour policies.

[/quote]
Its funny how on a OP who complains how her black son was locked in a room by his association with other black boys at an after school setting - one who the school confirms didn't do anything and you use loaded terms like 'Nuffin'

So many posters read 8 black boys, a fucking rubiks cube and we've jumped to street talk 'Nuffin' , pouring acid, and county lines and drug gangs.

Fucking listen to yourself

What's being missed is the correlation between the accusation of intimidation being levied amongst young minority boys, and potential bias. Yes, it can be the case that the boys were intimidating. However, ask any young black man (from drug dealer, to accountant, to police man) whether they have experienced being over policed by white teachers, and seen as threatening by white women in particular, and they will all say this is the case. Studies show Black children as being assumed older and more criminal, so it's naive for posters to think that this might not play a part in the level of fear she has and intentional intimidation she might appoint to their behavior. Whether that is in part bias or reality is something that will never be proven, but the data shows that in education, the criminal justice system, the workplace, policing and basically everywhere else that this is a thing!

So many posters read 8 black boys, a fucking rubiks cube and we've jumped to street talk 'Nuffin' , pouring acid, and county lines and drug gangs.

The pouring acid was in reference to a chemistry lab and the gangs were in response to you saying 13 year old boys can’t be intimidating.

Not sure why you’re trying to suggest PPs are racist just to win an argument.

Are you joking? I teach in predominantly white areas and I'm working class and from a mining town in Yorkshire where we absolutely said things like 'dint do nuffin' when we were sullen teenagers.

You are seeing race issues where there are none.

Most of the pupils involved in county lines or gangs in my area are white, by the way. Not that I mentioned those things.

County lines and drug gangs are in every community. Race doesn't come into it.

Jesus wept @namethattunein1 I am talking GENERALLY. The kids I'm referring to on my posts were white and rural middle class so 🤷‍♀️

This specific situation is very clear. These boys purposely went about to upset this teacher. Deliberate goading and nastiness.

Couldn't give a shiny shit what their background is, it's bang out of order.

@chillie with respect, you're not posting in a place where racial nuance and lived experience will effect the lens in which this is looked at, and the response that you get as a result.

Please DM me, there is an organisation that works with Grammar schools that looks at this issue and a lot of their work is data driven. They can approach the school to see if there are any patterns in discipline according to race and specific teachers etc.

@namethattunein1

thinks they didn't do nuffin'

No one in my family use the word nuffin, thanks for that stereotype

This is one struggling teacher, based on the info in the Op. If every day is bad and she ends up crying at work she will be in a kind of fight or flight mode all the time. She's not going to respond to someone stealing resources (and a pp was totally right that there's a craze for doing this through tiktok) in a calm and measured manner. She needs support, and sounds like the other teacher tried to give her some, which is better than a lot of schools.

If 13 year old boys intimidate you, you have no business being a teacher

There speaks someone who hasn't been physically threatened in a classroom by a 6 foot 13 year old boy. Yes when he stood over me pushing me I was intimidated. His behaviour was deliberately intimidating.

However I suspect the way the OPs son behaved was in a more subtly intimidating manner. The sly looks, the giggles, the deliberate whispers, the pointed comments, the 'pack' mentality against the woman at the front. We need to educate our boys (and girls) that this type of behaviour is not acceptable too.

@Hercisback

If 13 year old boys intimidate you, you have no business being a teacher

There speaks someone who hasn't been physically threatened in a classroom by a 6 foot 13 year old boy. Yes when he stood over me pushing me I was intimidated. His behaviour was deliberately intimidating.

However I suspect the way the OPs son behaved was in a more subtly intimidating manner. The sly looks, the giggles, the deliberate whispers, the pointed comments, the 'pack' mentality against the woman at the front. We need to educate our boys (and girls) that this type of behaviour is not acceptable too.

if someone physically threatens you its a police matter, you are breaking the law of the land, regardless of your age or height.

What has that got to do with a group of boys pissing around with a rubiks cube FFS ??

[quote OnceuponaRainbow18]@namethattunein1

thinks they didn't do nuffin'

No one in my family use the word nuffin, thanks for that stereotype[/quote]
Your comment, is it meant for me??

if someone physically threatens you its a police matter, you are breaking the law of the land, regardless of your age or height

You have misinterpreted what @Hercisback said.

It's got to do with the fact that the boys are likely behaving in an intimidating way towards a female member of staff. They need to learn that that behaviour isn't acceptable anymore. Schools are there to educate. If behaviour is intimidating, the boys need to know this so they don't continue with it into adulthood.

Good luck with the police as a teacher being physically or verbally abused. Shows how out of touch you are really.

As well as mistakenly claiming that the victim is the wrongdoer.

@Hercisback

It's got to do with the fact that the boys are likely behaving in an intimidating way towards a female member of staff. They need to learn that that behaviour isn't acceptable anymore. Schools are there to educate. If behaviour is intimidating, the boys need to know this so they don't continue with it into adulthood.

Good luck with the police as a teacher being physically or verbally abused. Shows how out of touch you are really.

And your complete absence of any acknowledgement of bias in the treatment of black boys in schools shows how out of touch you really are.

There was a study into what black boys are excluded for compared to white boys and it was shocking, that's the reality when a 'good school' reports a black boy - he's much more likely to be excluded and never returned to the school and this is for actions that DONT include physical or verbally abusing teachers.

To dismiss any reference to the 8 boys being black and dismissing their race as anything to do with this shows how tone deaf most are to these sort of issues, but hardly surprising.

Many people in this country think schools are too woke and verging on anti-white propaganda - I commented to Mumsnet poster only today who posted those very words, when the truth of being a black boy in British schools couldn't be further from the truth.

I haven't mentioned the race of the boys because it is a straw man argument in this case. The behaviour was intimidating no matter what the race. This has nothing to do with the race of the boys and everything to do with their behaviour.

I agree there is systemic racism in this country and some of the exclusions data shows this. The headlines about black boys and exclusion rates do not tell the full story though. It is worth diving deeper into the research and methodologies used.

Your experience of school is limited, that much is clear.

Is there a stereotype of Asian boys being threatening? Are they more excluded than other students?

The OP said that the students were black and Asian and the tendency here seems to be to lump them all under one stereotype of intimidation and assert racism on that basis.

Anyone who thinks BAME pupils (particularly boys) do not face a lot of conscious and unconscious bias, has probably not been a BAME pupil at a British school.

Apart from lived experiences there’s been a fair amount of research done on the topic.

There’s nothing to suggest OPs son was actually doing anything intimidating, apart from just existing.

Yes, men can be intimidating, but singling out a group of BAME students and telling them this is not the right way of addressing misogynistic men

@Hercisback

I haven't mentioned the race of the boys because it is a straw man argument in this case. The behaviour was intimidating no matter what the race. This has nothing to do with the race of the boys and everything to do with their behaviour.

I agree there is systemic racism in this country and some of the exclusions data shows this. The headlines about black boys and exclusion rates do not tell the full story though. It is worth diving deeper into the research and methodologies used.

Your experience of school is limited, that much is clear.

So the OP ( a black parent) says , "However there is already a stereotype of black boys being intimidating and telling 14 yr old black boys that they shouldn't intimidate young female teachers just reinforces that stereotype."

OP also says "He's petrified of his Spanish and English teachers, both around the same age and sex but they can control the class so not about age or women in his brain. "

And you dismiss race as a fucking straw man argument in this case...thanks for clearing that up.

Why is your response so similar to so many I've heard in response to family members who have gone through similar issues with their black boys at schools. Complete denial.

You don't even CONSIDER this teacher is guilty of racial bias, or accept the parent would be worried about this and dismiss the subject of race as a straw man. The OP's son is lying and guilty of intimidating behavior, despite the school agreeing with the sons version of events, that he sat at his desk and did not do anything.