IB or A Levels

[Veronica25]

What are people experience of IB or A levels and their opinion? how do they impact work and university choices?

DD is looking at Sixth Forms and doesn't know yet what she would like to do as a career. She enjoys various subjects including DT, Geography, Maths, Chemistry, Spanish, have thought of economics and business but researched them yet.

I would be grateful for opinion on both.

Thank you very much. I do think it is a great qualification and will suit DD, but need to make sure she research it well and know what involves and is going to be able to mange the workload before she commits to it.

We went to see TGGS last week and were very impressed. Going to see Dartford Grammar which is closer to our house.

My DD is doing an IB at a local state school. I agree what's been said about it being hard to run for the school - they are attached to a Secondary School, and can only offer a subset of all the IB subjects and especially languages, so the ACTUAL subjects offered by the school you're applying to may also affect your choice.

No regrets but it's hard work (although we don't have any experience of A Levels), especially organising the CAS - this took us/her quite unawares and our school only offers minimal practical support for organising these activities. This varies from school to school so do ask about this - another local school also offering IB is much more proactive with helping the students collect their 'CAS hours'. Lockdown restrictions didn't help... In our case however it was a good way to broaden her horizons.
She's academically bright (9s in GCSE) so is doing okay, and was able to pursue her interest in Maths and Science while keeping some breadth and a foreign language. However I should include that a) she also chose the school because it is quite small (as opposed to the local 6th form colleges with 1000 in each year), and b) I have a baccalaureate from another EU country so was receptive to the idea of keeping your studies broader. Around here, the IB by its nature also attracts students who are already considering studying abroad, and/or have already been to school in another country, so the specific cohort in her school includes (academically able) students from very mixed and international backgrounds which adds another dimension to the 'broadening of horizons' for my DD.
Applying to University is straightforward, I have no concerns there - all the courses she's looked at list nuanced 'requirements' that show they do understand how IBs work, and which Maths strands and subject levels are needed in the sciences for example.

"Even DC with mostly 9s at Gcse have favourite subjects. Ones they enjoy slightly more. My DD1 had stellar gcse results but could rationalise what she felt more comfortable with at A level. Most dc can project beyond gcse and look at where their overall strengths and interests lie."

That's definitely true but in my case (and some of my friends who did it with me) despite having favourites being able to do a variety of things is a positive in itself. I thought I'd go mad at sixth form with every day the same: English, Spanish, History. Having a varied curriculum stopped me getting bored (in a "poor attention span" way rather than a "this is too easy" way). My job now is very varied and involves turning my hand to many different topics and ways of working, so this preference continued. I think looking back I also benefitted from extra years of science and maths which I wouldn't have had otherwise.

Our school has dropped it and added a wider range of A levels.

You can do 3 A levels, then if you are worried about boredom you could add core maths, a language Delft or an epq.

@FitAt50

Husband (Deputy Head) just said "Very prentious to to the IB in Britain".

Yes there is quite a lot of intellectual snobbery attached to it I think.

Friends’ DC who have already done IB and gone to university have mentioned that the transition to uni was a doddle compared to their A level counterparts as they already had experience of structure and workload so found their first year really easy

I think A level students often find their first year easy too!

I think children have to make pretty staggering decisions about their long term careers ridiculously early in the UK. The broadness of the IB keeps options open for longer. Also, having to continue to study a broad curriculum for longer I think enhances your overall ability. Even if you are more maths oriented you have to continue to develop your writing and language skills which ultimately I think is an advantage in a child's intellectual development.

@Pippi1970
I tend to think IB parents will justify the choice and say their DC are better even though they cannot make a direct comparison . It’s not as if only IB students flourish at university, is if? Plenty do! Plenty get firsts too without IB! So I think the naturally bright do well whatever they study.

I would also say that no DC should be bored at a decent school that should offer all sorts of enrichment and clubs. Life isn’t about being taught subjects every day. It’s also what you can seek for yourself. As I explained above, bright dc can do a lot in the best schools and just doing exams is not necessary.

@SouthLondonMommy

I think children have to make pretty staggering decisions about their long term careers ridiculously early in the UK. The broadness of the IB keeps options open for longer. Also, having to continue to study a broad curriculum for longer I think enhances your overall ability. Even if you are more maths oriented you have to continue to develop your writing and language skills which ultimately I think is an advantage in a child's intellectual development.

This. I did A levels and uni in the U.K., and definitely made dubious choices based on immaturity and having no idea what I wanted to do. Sometimes the curse of the all rounder is that you have no clear path.

For this reason and since living abroad and having dealt with different school systems in different countries I’ve become a fan of the broader approach of the baccalaureate and Italian/Spanish/German etc. equivalent. I think I personally would have benefited from continuing with more subjects, leaving me with more options to choose from at the end. Also it would have given me a broader knowledge base and general culture which I felt I was lacking in at the time.

Oddly enough my DD has a very clear idea of what she wants to do, and her HL subjects reflect her chosen career path. However the SL subjects she is continuing are giving her a more rounded education which in turn support the HL subjects.

Name change as revealing personal info. My daughter is currently in year 12 at TGGS OP. I can only speak for her experience but IB really suits her and she is loving it so far. She has no idea what she wants to study at uni yet and she's always been an all rounder. She is taking english history and biology at higher level and latin, maths and philosophy at lower. The CAS element has got her involved in extra curricular things I'm not sure she otherwise would have done and she seems much happier and more confident than she was during GCSEs.

However, I've got a year 9 son and I'm not sure IB would suit him in the same way. Key issues with people choosing seem to be the language requirement and maths. DD has been able to carry on with latin which isn't quite the same as a MFL. So it does depend on the child's strengths, but if your DD is an all rounder and likes being academically challenged, it is a good option.

I was a high achiever and ended up leaving the IB after 1 year. It was very high stress

[quote TizerorFizz]@Pippi1970
I tend to think IB parents will justify the choice and say their DC are better even though they cannot make a direct comparison . It’s not as if only IB students flourish at university, is if? Plenty do! Plenty get firsts too without IB! So I think the naturally bright do well whatever they study.

I would also say that no DC should be bored at a decent school that should offer all sorts of enrichment and clubs. Life isn’t about being taught subjects every day. It’s also what you can seek for yourself. As I explained above, bright dc can do a lot in the best schools and just doing exams is not necessary.[/quote]
I don’t think that anyone has suggested their children are better and therefore studied the IB. I also don’t agree there is intellectual snobbery attached to the decision. A levels are, imo, still regarded as the gold standard in the UK. When I tell people Ds took the IB, most regard is as some kind of weird foreign option we took as we were living overseas.
My ds chose the IB as it was the best choice for him. My dd who is year 11 will take A levels as she has no desire to continue with a foreign language at school and would prefer to concentrate on maths and science.

Several reviews have recommended to successive governments that A levels are too narrow and that the current two-stage GCSE / A level system should be replaced by a single diploma covering a broader range of 5+ subjects (Hmm, what does that sound like?). Each time their recommendations were widely praised, but nothing was done.
A levels were already recognised as too narrow and out of date in 1988. 33 years later, we still have a system that harks back to a school leaving age of 16 and promotes premature specialisation at that age.

Higginson report 1988

tomlinson report 2004

EDSK report 2021

These threads always end up getting so competitive - or full of inferred criticism where none is meant. Very few people have come on here and said that the IB (or a child doing the IB) is definitively 'better'. The breadth of the IB will be great for some students, not for others. The extended essay can be great preparation for university - but that doesn't mean you can't also get those skills from A levels. The CAS element is great for getting kids to widen their experiences - but of course that doesn't mean you can't get involved in creative and service activities without doing IB. The OP asked for information about the IB vs A levels - parents who feel their kids have benefitted from the IB have come on to say 'the IB has been great for my DC for xyz reason'. That doesn't mean it's a 'self justification' or an implication that A levels are a lesser choice - it's just their experience and their opinion of some of the advantages for some students.

Thank you all. I am not an expert and did not grow up in the UK, but I think being able to study more subjects is a great opportunity if you can cope with them of course. I think is sad that kids start dropping important subjects like Geography and maths subjects in year 10 and can drop maths and English in year 12.

DD already has a second language so hopefully that will make it easier for her if she decides to do the IB. She also does well and enjoys DT, maths, Chemistry, Geography.

Could someone please explain the CAS element and the essay. What have only seen TGGS and did not ask any of these questions.

CAS does not contribute to the diploma score, but is a necessary requirement to complete the diploma. The three elements are creativity, service and activity students need to keep a record of activities undertaken and reflect on the activities. Some of the things my ds did: played football and touch rugby for school, coached football at another school, website design for a charity.
The extended essay is a 3000 word essay and there are also three reflective elements to be completed as you progress through the essay. Subject choice up to student. The essay and TOK course make up the final three points of the diploma.

CAS is not overly taxing, for the service part DD volunteers at a charity once or twice a month, one of her friends helps lower years with maths in school lunch break, another volunteered in a playscheme for a couple of weeks in the summer. For the activity part most just carry on with extra curricular sports and the creativity part is pretty simple if you already have music lessons, for instance. DD finished off an art project she had started years ago, another designed and helped paint a mural for a community project (thus combining creativity and service). Or you can simply apply creative thinking to solve a problem.

It’s supposed to counter balance the academics but doesn’t take up too much time as there is so much study

www.ibo.org/programmes/diploma-programme/curriculum/creativity-activity-and-service/

The EE is like a mini dissertation, or research, you can either base it on one of your subjects or choose something interdisciplinary. TOK is another essay but much shorter and has a philosophical bent. It’s supposed to encourage critical analysis.

It’s all fairly new to me this year, I’ve still got to get my head around some of the aspects, but DD seems to be enjoying it.

@ShanghaiDiva
I think if you read back, numerous statements have been made from parents about why IB is better! Eg “it enhances overall ability”, “the transition to uni was a doddle when compared to A level students”, “kids drop important subjects like maths in y10”, “A levels were recognised as too narrow and out of date in 1988”, and several more!

When a parent finds IB would suit they often have to pay or get very very lucky if it’s offered at a local state school. No grammar near me offers it. Therefore DC here would either have to board or we would have to move. So posters here think DC around me are disadvantaged. Parents who move or pay to get IB are naturally going to think it’s wonderful and justify it. It’s a small minority and even the op does not have a local school offering it I think! (2 hour commute?) So of course a big sacrifice in time or money must be justifiable. However getting to where you want to be is still possible with A levels and I think most parents of A level students are fairly happy with them.

Taking Maths, Physics and Chemistry, for example leads to a huge range of options regarding university and careers. Does anyone ever know who has an IB and who doesn’t several tsars down the line?

When I read the huge number of posters on MN whose DC want to drop a MFL after 3 years (or even 2 when they don’t want to do it beyond y8) I find it astounding to think how we could possibly entertain the IB being widely available. Few would be able to do it. The majority cannot even do a MFL for gcse!

Tsars??? Years….

@TizerorFizz
I do think it’s disappointing to drop so many subjects at age 16 and having lived abroad for 25 years I think the UK approach is quite unusual.

I don’t think comments that suggest IB is better than A levels or vice versa are particularly helpful. They are both well regarded for university entry and when my ds was at uni students had a variety of qualifications: IB, Abitur, French Bac and A levels.
I think it’s more helpful to stick to the facts: to do well at IB you do need to be a very good all rounder and the timetable is pretty packed. ( Of course an al level timetable with an EPQ and lots of extra curricular is also packed) That does not suit everyone, regardless of academic
ability. My ds had an excellent experience with IB, but for my dd a levels are the better option.

My closest state only offers IB so it’s not true that it’s only offered by independent schools. I think it will suit my child who wants to do classics at uni - the other states near us don’t offer Latin at A-level but it’s part of the language offering at IB.

@Enb76
Who said it was only offered at independent schools? What state school only offers IB? I would love to know? Is it in the uk? Most state schools do not offer IB in the uk and that is a fact.

I do think the facts are important and my previous quotes suggest some parents are economical with the truth when promoting the IB. Yes, of course it can suit some DC but not everyone.

Hockerill is a state school which only offers the IB.

We have two state schools within a 15 minute drive which offer IB only - one grammar and one secondary modern.